Choose your own adventure. - Page 5

djoyce003 · #41 12-08-2005, 08:39 PM

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turn: Ace hits and he keeps betting - shows he's not scared of that ace, no one here advocates a check-fold? I think you're behind here against a weak ace and have two outs. Either fold or c/r attempting to get him to fold.

river: I put him on an ace - based on your line, looks like a flush draw, so I think he will check behind. I say push hoping for a call

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Wrong, that ace had an impact. He bets $25 into a huge pot here. He's either a) afraid that ace made hero's hand improve, or b) he's being tricky and hoping that hero wanted to checkraise....it's really a decision between those 2 things. The problem with raising is that it could be option b instead of option a, and if it is option a, we are ahead anyway and don't want to necessarily run him off. The only hand that villain could possibly have with option a that we want to fold is KK or f a flush draw.

I didn't get to voice my opinion on the turn, but I favor a call I guess....hate to raise here and be faced with a push, but I also hate to give a cheap card to someone with a flush draw...however I offered him a free card and he charged himself $25 so I'm not sure he's drawing here...I think he might have flopped a set but because of our preflop reraise he thinks we have AAA.

River - Given this action I'd probably go for the checkraise all in....I don't think he's got a flush.

xorbie · #42 12-08-2005, 10:20 PM

Here's my thoughts again on the hand as a whole, as well as results.

Preflop: Villain has shown in the past that he is willing to break tempo (i.e. the hand where I raised PF and he bet into me on the flop with air and kept betting, as well as some other hands where I raised flop and he bet the turn). This means that even if I do raise him here, he might try to take it away later postflop and since I'd like to play a large pot here (obviously flop dependent), I may as well start building it now.

Flop: His raise could mean many things. He might put me on AK (or just big cards in general). He might also have a set, two pair, KK, AA, whatever. He could also just be testing the waters with a mediocre hand or even have pretty good equity against me. In any case, I think ~$30 going into this flop is the perfect amount for a turn checkraise all in, because the pot will be $80 and our stack $100 on the turn, meaning if he bets his normal 1/3-1/2 pot bet, he will have great odds to call with just about any legitamite hand he holds, a range of which I am way ahead.

Turn: Ok, bad card to check raise all in. A lead here sort of sucks because if he does push all in I could be in a really rough spot. At this point I change my plan to a check/call because at this point I'm (a) not quite as far ahead of his hands and (b) less likely to get a call from a hand I'm behind if I do checkraise. Also, this villain really doesn't seem sofisticated enough to minraise flop and check behind on a draw (or at least I'm hoping he isn't).

River: Dunno if this river helped or hurt but I'm obviously willing to get it all in at this point, because I beat anything but a flush or flopped straight (which I think is unlikely, this guy was raising with big cards mostly). At this point a check is fairly likely to induce a bluff from complete air or a value bet from hands that beat me, but I do believe he will check behind here with one or two pair and maybe even a smaller set (can't be sure there). I should have probably check/raising here, but ended up pushing. He called with A8o.

yvesaint · #43 12-08-2005, 10:47 PM

i think check-raise all-in on the river is best

you are showing big ol weakness checking both turn/river, really looks like youre trying to get to showdown "cheap" by check-calling the whole way down

as you said, villain has a tendency to bluff too, and not only that, he will def bet out with any A, 2-pair, set, etc., and the pot is so big no matter what he bets, he calls your check-raise

i think if you push you let him off easy with a weaker pair

Fallen Hero · #44 12-09-2005, 12:22 AM

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I call. this will probably be a hu pot anyway and I rather keep it small since I'll be oop with a hand i want to see a showdown with.

PS: but this is one of those spots where I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong :|

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We like to play big pots with our big hands preflop.

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you have to be kidding, why on earth will you want to play a big pot oop with a one pair hand against this guy?

xorbie · #45 12-09-2005, 12:26 AM

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you have to be kidding, why on earth will you want to play a big pot oop with a one pair hand against this guy?

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A) The fact that he bluffs a lot tells me this would be fantastic.

B) Same rational would justify not raising AA here either.

yvesaint · #46 12-09-2005, 12:38 AM

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you have to be kidding, why on earth will you want to play a big pot oop with a one pair hand against this guy?

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one pair is a pretty strong hand pre-flop [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Fallen Hero · #47 12-09-2005, 12:50 AM

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you have to be kidding, why on earth will you want to play a big pot oop with a one pair hand against this guy?

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A) The fact that he bluffs a lot tells me this would be fantastic.

B) Same rational would justify not raising AA here either.

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Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

yvesaint · #48 12-09-2005, 01:10 AM

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Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

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can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

Fallen Hero · #49 12-09-2005, 01:12 AM

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Well, if he bluffs a lot and plays big pots with crappy hands all the time why are you so eager to play a big pot with an overpair oop?

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can you read what you just typed, i mean, is the answer not clear here?

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I usually hate the "there are better spots" argument, but in this case I'll open an exception

EDIT: just to clarify something here: I'm saying he should fold on an ace high flop or something idiotic like that, I'm not even sure not reraising pf is the best thing to do, I'm just saying QQ is not the kind of hand with wich I hope to play a big pot, if it happens against this guy...well, you're probably ahead, so ok, but as a default plan I'm not sure I like it.

rachelwxm · #50 12-09-2005, 02:06 AM

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As long as he has you on AK, that turn is g00t

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You think so? I thought I was still likely ahead on the flop, I think this turn totally impedes my ability to get value out of my hand. I just called the turn, which I'm still not sure about. I was planning on check raising all in on anything but a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or an A, so I sort of froze up here.

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I did't say that he is ahead on the flop, most LAGs min raise with a wide range of hands for free card in future street. Before the flop you are ahead I think, but I think the turn card is very bad for you cause most reraising range is KK-JJ is now behind Ax. You certainly could have AK type of hand, his bet is like a half value bet (to get called by underpair) half probing bet(to see if you have AK).