Beaten like a Red Headed Step Child

[DJA]

Situation:

Party $100 Max NLHE (1-2 blinds), I have just posted my SB and have $97 left... this is my second hand. I am dealt AA.

5 limpers to me, and I make it $15 to go (pot sized bet because BB has yet to act).

1 middle position caller and 1 late position caller there is ~$50 in the pot, and I have $82 remaining. They both have about the same as me. Question #1 is there any way to get away from this now if the board is reasonably ragged. Remember I am first to act:

Flop: 9d 6s 4d. Question #2 what would you do?. I bet out $41 (half my stack), middle position limper folded, late position limper raises me all-in. Question #3. What do you do?

I called. He flopped a set of 6's.

In my mind there is no way to get away from this hand, but my friend commented that a world class player would. I just do not see given the circumstances how he does. Am I missing something?

Question #4, what do you think of 66's call preflop?

My personal opinion is that this call is too loose to be profitable in the long run. I don't try to spike a set unless I have implied odds of about 10:1 or so... but he did have a caller before him... so it is quite close.

What do you guys think?

[Robk]

Question #1: No, there is no way to get away from AA on this flop.
Question #2: I would go all in.
Question #3: Easy call. You're getting over 4:1 in a spot where you will often be a big favorite over a smaller overpair/9/draw.
Question #4: His call is borderline I think. I would make it if I thought either of the players in the pot were bad.

?In my mind there is no way to get away from this hand, but >my friend commented that a world class player would. I >just do not see given the circumstances how he does. Am I >missing something?

No one is getting away from this hand postflop. Your mistake was not raising enough preflop.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
No one is getting away from this hand postflop. Your mistake was not raising enough preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that. Do you think 66 was right to call if he knew the raiser had AA (fund. theorum of poker, and all that)? I don't think so. Some people just call a raise with any pair. If he called for 15, don't you think he would have called $20 or $25? How much would you have made it?

I don't see how you get away from this post flop with that stack size. If the money had been alot deeper and you were getting a huge amount of action, you may have been able to smell trips and lay it down, but once you end up with a raggedy board and only about twice the pot in your stack, you're going all-in, one way or another.

[Robk]

>If he called for 15, don't you think he would have called >$20 or $25?

You're saying this is a reason not to raise more?

[DJA]

I agree that this guy probably calls a bigger bet, but I had only been at the table for 1 hand prior to this. I really don't know what kind of mistakes this guy was willing to make.

Again, I am not having near as many troubles playing people with deeper stacks. I can let go of a hand when I think it is no good, but it seems I just can't believe my hand isn't good anymore until I have put in all of my money in this short stack stuff.

Maybe these games aren't for me.

[crockpot]

Bob Ciaffone sets out 'the rule of five and ten' in his book on Pot-Limit and No-Limit Poker. with a small pair in good position against a known big hand, you have a clear call if the raise is less than five percent of your stack, and a clear fold if it's more than ten percent. although this isn't without exceptions (for example, if everyone calls the raise the guy would have to be mad not to call with 66), i think it sets a good general rule. the implied odds aren't really with him, but remember that people don't play online to fold all the time.

as for your play, i agree that you should go all in on the flop unless you know the opponent to be very tight. i personally hate having to make decisions on the flop out of position with a relatively small pot, so in the blinds i tend to make a much bigger raise with aces, usually at least 1/3 of my stack, so i know no hand is getting the odds to chase me. at least i feel a lot better when the guy turns over his set and i can rightfully call him an idiot.

[DJA]

The problem with raising a 1/3 of my stack is that I don't know if anyone will call. If I had been at the table a bit, and I knew a couple of my opponents may call a big overbet sure... but I don't want to lose everybody... well in this case I guess yes, I did want to lose everybody. I just can't make myself try to drive everyone out of a pot when I have A's in HE. You have such a huge edge over your opponents it has to be a mistake to force everyone out.

Still getting my ass kicked though, so maybe my A's edge isn't as big as I thought.

[MrGo]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with raising a 1/3 of my stack is that I don't know if anyone will call. If I had been at the table a bit, and I knew a couple of my opponents may call a big overbet sure... but I don't want to lose everybody... well in this case I guess yes, I did want to lose everybody. I just can't make myself try to drive everyone out of a pot when I have A's in HE. You have such a huge edge over your opponents it has to be a mistake to force everyone out.

Still getting my ass kicked though, so maybe my A's edge isn't as big as I thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know your opponents well, don't risk your whole stack to find out what they play like.

[DJA]

I once saw this question posed on this site: If you had everything you owned on a poker table... everything, your house, your business, your car... etc. and you were playing heads up against a guy, he goes all-in and has you covered, and you look down at AA would you call?

I would, it would take me about 1/100 of a second to call, but I have gambled a lot bigger with a lot less edge at life situations. So I don't really mind not knowing my opponent if I am guaranteed not to be behind.

So sure it is good to know your opponent, but it isn't necessary. You can still make the best decision based on the information you have.

Now, in the same situation, if I knew this guy only puts everything in with AA, I would fold. The 9% of the time that he flushes, would rip me apart inside.

So obviously it is best to have as much information as possible.

I don't think way over betting the pot with AA is the right decision. However, in hind site I think it would have been way better.

[MrGo]

I agree with Crock. You in horrible position. Because of this, you want the pot to be less-handed. You should of made it at least $30 to go.