Party 15 - 87s Blind Steal

MarkD · #1 01-08-2005, 08:30 PM

I’m sorry about flooding this forum but these hands have been sitting around for a while and I’ve been curious about getting comments on them. I don’t often post hands so I hope this balances out.

Anyways, after 54 hands my opponent is VPIP 59.26 and PFR 18.52. Comments on how this hand was played? As you can tell, blind stealing and defense has become a focus of mine – to make sure I’m not screwing up too horribly.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

jogumon · #2 01-08-2005, 08:52 PM

From BB's numbers, you have almost no fold equity on the blind steal, which leaves you playing a small suited connector out of position against an opponent who probably won't fold until the river, if that. Wait until you have high cards to do this.

MarkD · #3 01-08-2005, 09:01 PM

So you are going to fold 78s in the SB when the blinds are $10 and $15 respectively? That's not right.

schroedy · #4 01-08-2005, 09:30 PM

depending on the player, folding can be correct.

I know it sounds tremendously weak, but if you can't blow him out with anything, it might be better to wait for multi-way action where he has less bluffing latitude. If he is prone to bluffing, that is. The combination of being a total sherriff, plus a propensity to bluff, plus his having position on you, is just too much to fight.

jogumon · #5 01-08-2005, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you are going to fold 78s in the SB when the blinds are $10 and $15 respectively? That's not right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ran it through PokerStove. 78s has 48% equity against a random hand. You're out of position, against a LAG (very LAG). There is pretty much a 0% chance of winning the blinds with a raise. There's a decent chance of paying 3 bets to see the flop. Putting your opponent on a hand will be pretty much impossible.

If the opponent is TAG or passive, then I probably do raise here. Against a super LAG, I fold.

JimmyV · #6 01-09-2005, 12:19 AM

What's the problem? Just limp. It's what he would do, it doesn't telegraph anything to him.

Limp, then fold the flop.

JimmyV

sthief09 · #7 01-09-2005, 12:30 AM

Mark, I like raising there. You have a hand that's going to hit a lot of flops, and you have the capability to completely outplay your opponent. Unfortunately, you hit a pretty crappy flop, which got much worse on the turn, so you fold. No big deal. I don't care that 87s may be 48% against a random hand. it's going to hit enough hands for you to play at. it's not even close to one of my favorite hands in this spot, but it's good enough to play at, because even though it doesn't have any showdown value, it's going to hit enough flops that you can play at to make it profitable if you play it right postflop, which I know you're very capable of doing.

MarkD · #8 01-09-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What's the problem? Just limp. It's what he would do, it doesn't telegraph anything to him.

Limp, then fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a reasonable line I think. I make this play with a lot of other hands (very weak ones) so this would fit in with that strategy. Of course if he raises pre-flop I will have to call because of the reasons Sthief outlines and the fact I would be getting 3-1 on the call and would not be a 3-1 dog to whatever hand he has.

MarkD · #9 01-09-2005, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mark, I like raising there. You have a hand that's going to hit a lot of flops, and you have the capability to completely outplay your opponent. Unfortunately, you hit a pretty crappy flop, which got much worse on the turn, so you fold. No big deal. I don't care that 87s may be 48% against a random hand. it's going to hit enough hands for you to play at. it's not even close to one of my favorite hands in this spot, but it's good enough to play at, because even though it doesn't have any showdown value, it's going to hit enough flops that you can play at to make it profitable if you play it right postflop, which I know you're very capable of doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sthief,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I needed it after the past couple of days where everything I did seemed to be wrong (even the simplest of plays).

I agree with your reasoning here. Folding is out of the question with a hand this strong especially when you consider I'm getting 5-1 immediate odds to simply call (and am almost even money on a raise).

But, upon hindsight I think I should add this hand into my range of limping hands in this spot against this type of opponent. Since I will need to hit a flop somewhat, and can outplay my opponent post-flop, I think I should limp here and then play the hand as best I can post-flop and make my money there.

To those that advocate folding this hand pre-flop - I will contend that you are absolutely crazy.

DeeJ · #10 01-09-2005, 03:19 PM

I don't like the limp. If people limp into my BB I think "aha, he's got low/marginal cards" and unless I have total tripe it's met with a raise.

Therefore it's raise or fold (mostly, can't be too predictable, sometimes limp in for variety). I'm more keen to fold lower cards obviously if they don't hit.