QQ in oversized pot, your move on the flop?

[Rotating Rabbit]

This isnt a hand I played, its based on one I read about a while back someone pmed me (and perhaps other ppl too?) but I found it pretty interesting, interesting enough to post here too:

10 handed, 5-10, all relevent stacks are about $1000. No reads.

Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $50, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

7 players, pot is $360, flop comes:

10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, UTG bets $50, Hero?


Supplementary question: does your answer change if the 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ?

[thabadguy]

I raise pot, and i dont think the answer changes too much if its 8d or 9d.

[MikeL05]

With this many players in, and the jackass bet from UTG, I'd think odds are pretty good that you're behind to a set.

Still, I'd want to be sure and raise it up to $250 or $300. Looks a bit more intimidating than had you originally led out for that amount, and it might clear the field behind you. If you're behind AA or KK here, I'd think it would have to be from someone directly behind you. If I was in LP with one of those hands, with that much money in the pot, I'd certainly reraise it.

[Chr]

Raise to 400 and hope to get rid of draws. AA and KK should have raised pf. If you get called you are behind..... or outplayed.

[Rotating Rabbit]

If you raise to 300 and anybody plays on you're committed.

So, everybody above would be all in on this hand?

[thabadguy]

Stacks arent deep enough to warrant getting away from this hand.
I think playing big pairs aggressively can result in losing a few buyins, but it is definitely +EV in the long run.
Are you suggesting calling his miniscule bet? I dont see the merit in that.
If he has a set or AA,KK, pay him off.

[muzungu]

I dunno about that. If someone behind me pushes and UTG calls, I am definitely folding. If someone behind me smoothcalls and UTG pushes, I am probably folding.

I don't think betting 300 is committal here. There is enough $ in the pot that it is worth your while to say yes, I do indeed have an overpair, and I am going to make a bet that looks committal, so what are you going to do about it? If there is heavy multiway action, you can assume someone has you beat and fold. If it is folded around and UTG pushes, you have to make a read. This is an odd bet from a set- it looks more like a feeler bet from JJ/AT or diamonds to me.

Not a fun spot, but raising here beats calling, which leaves you vulnerable to raises from weaker hands behind you. And, with all the dead money in the pot, I think a raise is +EV, so I'd say it beats folding.

-muz

[MarkL444]

i think whats most interesting here is UTGs aggression. if this is a strong draw, he may push to your raise and really put you to the test.

i know it may sound weak, but i think calling here may be best. 7 people to the flop is way too many, and im worried about everyone else just as much as UTG.

[Rotating Rabbit]

There's definitely a strong argument for calling, if only to see what everybody behind does, and for set value although the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] could be messy.

I've also considered min raising to cheaply put all the players behind in a squeeze, worried about UTG left to act, we get a lot more info this way, and nobody's going to semi bluff this murky action.

[MikeL05]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise to 300 and anybody plays on you're committed.

So, everybody above would be all in on this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't feel committed. I'd check/fold from there out.