There's a third time for everything

Equal · #1 12-10-2005, 06:46 AM

I still think Tommy is just a guy that keeps making his hands more and more ludricous just to see how absurd a play he can post and STILL have people justifying it.

This one might be the one that went to far though. Hopefully some people will argue that his fold was correct. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

durrrr · #2 12-10-2005, 07:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I still think Tommy is just a guy that keeps making his hands more and more ludricous just to see how absurd a play he can post and STILL have people justifying it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've thought about this too. Either this is true, or he's been doing lots of drugs lately. Tommy; can you post some interesting concepts instead of just insane folds?

Tommy Angelo · #3 12-10-2005, 11:41 AM

"Tommy; can you post some interesting concepts instead of just insane folds?"

I think insane folds are an interesting concept.

trevor · #4 12-10-2005, 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Tommy; can you post some interesting concepts instead of just insane folds?"

I think insane folds are an interesting concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when you're probably a big effing favorite.

durrrr · #5 12-10-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Tommy; can you post some interesting concepts instead of just insane folds?"

I think insane folds are an interesting concept.

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mmmm ok. That's true (they are an interesting concept). I guess i want to see why you made them too; and you are either making an awful fold here (w/ the KK) or leaving out tons of information. While i dont need to see/hear this information (especially if its a specific tell live) I'd like to know its there so that I don't think your crazy. Also your line about "waiting for a better spot" is wayyy wayyy off base. I'd assume you realize this if only from reading a lot of 2+2. You should maximize every EV edge you have in a cash game supposing you are properly bankrolled (and I'd tend to believe you definitely are).

Tommy Angelo · #6 12-10-2005, 03:13 PM

"You should maximize every EV edge you have in a cash game..."

That is a meaningless sentence to me because I am unable to know the EV's of my decisions.

DcifrThs · #7 12-10-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"You should maximize every EV edge you have in a cash game..."

That is a meaningless sentence to me because I am unable to know the EV's of my decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

true tommy, very true.

but you do know ranges. you can estimate whether the EV is >0 fairly well given your experience. + you knew the other guy would call if you called, giving you info and better odds to make up for some of the variance you have to take to put in 3k.

further, ive read you say that you can't underplay a hand one round and then fold the next round to action b/c nobody can put you on that hand.

you limped. agro raised. another agro 3 bet all in that initial agro raiser. there's about 3.2k in the pot. even without the other player calling, do you expect to win about 50% of the time by the river? 33% if the other one called, which you knew he would. i trust your reads.

based on this information, we can estimate, not know, our expectation. did you have another 3k on you?

would this decision, if it cost you 3k this time, affect your future play from those players that "aren't going anywhere?" (gain you action probably b/c you finally put money in and dont have to expose yoru hand if you lose, but thats pretty irrelavent based on your description of these folks) will you play worse if you lost?

if you answer "yes" "yes" "no" then i vote call. im there for money.

Barron

durrrr · #8 12-11-2005, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"You should maximize every EV edge you have in a cash game..."

That is a meaningless sentence to me because I am unable to know the EV's of my decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

mmmmmm. This is true in that you are unable to know the EV's of your hands, much like you are unable to know your opponents hands. Poker is a game of incomplete information (as im sure you already know); hence you should guess [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. If you want to defend your KK fold b/c you think the other guy had AA; that is fine; and i'd be very interested to discuss it. However "waiting for a better spot" is not a valid argument as to why you can/should fold the KK (unless you provide additional reasons... i.e. underbankrolled; fish would leave if he scored big etc.). If some1 you knew who was adequately bankrolled for a game told you the exact action that you posted on here I suspect you would reply very similarly to strassa/zeejustin (call call call). W/ the information posted here it seems you made an awful decision... perhaps there was more to the story.

EDIT: btw you have played a lot longer than me, yet i have folded KK preflop on many more occasions than you have... FWIW.

Jason Strasser · #9 12-10-2005, 01:54 PM

the big idea here is that tommy's brand of poker is more read-based than anything I, or you, have ever played. In a spot like this in my head, I might think in my head "hmm he may have AA but there is no chance I can fold in this spot". In tommy's head, if he thinks the guy has AA, he folds.

I do agree that Tommy's line about 'oh the chips will be there later' is dumb. That is certainly not justification for any fold in a cash game, assuming you are properly rolled and tommy is.

-Jason