Turn action? Questionable flop cap?

Joe Tall · #1 11-13-2005, 05:30 PM

15/30 Empire 6-handed. Converter doesn't work for Empire any more bisonbison?

SB in this hand is really weak tight (12.8/5.5/1.15), BB in this hand is super loose passive (68/2.3/0.34) considerable data on each (~3k). The BB will call on every street with and piece, any gutter, over, etc and will only bet/raise w/the nuts. The perfect opponent.

2 LAGs fold to me and I raise w/Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], the SB and BB call.

3 to the flop for 6SBs:

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets out, BB calls, I raise, SB 3-bets, BB calls, I cap, call call.

Questionable?

3 to the 9BBs:

8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Check to me....

scotty34 · #2 11-13-2005, 06:03 PM

I check here. I really don't want to be raised by the BB because I know it means I'm beat, but have to call for the 4 outer.

There is a reasonable chance that SB also has you beat here - 99 seems like a likely holding, that got scared of the 4-straight.

I check, and probably call a single bet on the river UI. My river action would depend on who bets out/calls.

gildwulf · #3 11-13-2005, 06:06 PM

I like the flop cap...you have a lot of equity with the BB in the pot still on a very draw heavy board. I don't think betting the turn is a good idea on the 8 because you are giving any draw 10-1 to call, have almost no fold equity, and are probably up against a set or other made hand. Take the free card and hope you fill up.

ggbman · #4 11-13-2005, 06:56 PM

I like a check here. Its possible that someone flopped a straight or a set here, and that turn card very likely could have completed the BB's pair +draw combo. I would check behind the turn, hope to fill, and call a river bet from either of them. Don't overcall a river bet.

Gabe

Surfbullet · #5 11-13-2005, 07:09 PM

This is an interesting hand... BB getting dragged along is great for our equity, but I worry about SB. If you think he'll bet-3bet a KQ/AQ type hand then I like the flop cap. If he's weak-tight enough that he won't put a 3rd raise in with a 1 pair hand then I don't like it, unless it's to try and buy ourselves a free river.

That said, I check through the turn and decide whether to call a river bet based on the action. I really don't like our chances vs SB though, I see the pf calling standards being PPs 7+ and big broadways (AK/AQ/AJ/KQs)...he doesn't go berserk on a 9JQ flop with many of those except sets...it's almost impossible for a player with those stats to have made a worse 2 pair, so it all hinges on how aggressive he is with a 1 pair hand.

Surf

Joe Tall · #6 11-13-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a long time and I've had to stretch as of late to post something but I agree and thus why I posted it.

[ QUOTE ]
so it all hinges on how aggressive he is with a 1 pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, and I'm sure he's agressive w/TPGK, TPTK as I've whitnessed it. Now, if we make a the assumption that he is aware of the SB call-station status, wouldn't this posibly bring his agression higher? Therefore, 3-betting w/TPGK/TK on the flop?

TStoneMBD · #7 11-13-2005, 09:55 PM

alot of players will donk the turn after theyve caught their straight fearing you taking the free card, so your hand is still likely best at this point. i like a bet. if the BB checkraises you then you can fold the river unimproved.

Joe Tall · #8 11-13-2005, 10:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
alot of players will donk the turn after theyve caught their straight fearing you taking the free card, so your hand is still likely best at this point. i like a bet. if the BB checkraises you then you can fold the river unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem lies not in the staight holding but a set, as I think the W/T SB does not jam a draw on the flop. Nor do I think he calls my PFR w/KTo, so that eliminates combinations of flopped nuts to the 4 KTs.

Given I have top 2, it's 99, however, I feel the ranges of AQ, KQ are outweigh that I can bet the turn.

BB would have bet out w/a ten on the turn.

rory · #9 11-13-2005, 10:47 PM

I bet the turn against the opponents you describe. The flop cap is good too.

TStoneMBD · #10 11-13-2005, 11:04 PM

i thought you said hes aggressive with TP? from the read i got from you his hand range contains far more hands that youre ahead of then youre behind. a player like that is also very unlikely to be 3betting an oesd out of position unless he has a strong pair to compliment it. if you go strictly by combos 99 is a very unlikely holding compared to other possible hands.