Tricky JJ hand.

Freudian · #1 01-15-2005, 10:05 PM

I am trying to get my PFR and agression up a bit lately.

I have no information about UTG+1. UTG is TAG (17/10), CO is fishy (60/7).

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

River: (13 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Questions:

1) Should I reraise preflop?
2) Flop. Betting vs going or the c/r was 50/50 in my mind. I felt there was a pretty good chance of UTG betting if it was checked to him so I could c/r. Now afterwards I am thinking that betting out would be better. Thoughts?
3) Turn I have to bet out (call a raise from CO if UTG+1 folds, fold if UTG+1 calls a CO raise/UTG+1 raises). Thoughts?
4) River. I have to check here. What do I do if someone bets? Call 1 fold to two? Or is the pot big enough to motivate a crying call if there are two players left in the hand?

Sorry if some of these questions are stupid but I have this inner monologue between the weak me and the me who knows he has to play more aggressive. The latter needs supporting now and again.

bennyk · #2 01-15-2005, 10:20 PM

great hand.

bk

topspin · #3 01-15-2005, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to get my PFR and agression up a bit

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: MP3 raises, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

Cold-calling with JJ probably isn't the way to do it [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

On the flop you're expecting MP3 and not UTG to bet it for your CR, right? Seems fine to me. Turn bet good too.

[ QUOTE ]
4) River. I have to check here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? With no one showing aggression and the PFR out of the picture, seems like an easy value bet to me.

bennyk · #4 01-15-2005, 10:35 PM

1) Should I reraise preflop?

It's good you're looking to increase your PFR, but don't just raise more for no reason. Out of position in a 7-way pot this is a situation where you could raise, but don't have to. In this situation it makes sense to forego the edge preflop to make up more postflop.

2) Flop. Betting vs going or the c/r was 50/50 in my mind.

Out of position against 7 players, I go for a checkraise much more often than 50/50. Checkraising if you think UTG will bet is essential.

3) Turn I have to bet out (call a raise from CO if UTG+1 folds, fold if UTG+1 calls a CO raise/UTG+1 raises). Thoughts?

OK.

4) River. I have to check here. What do I do if someone bets? Call 1 fold to two? Or is the pot big enough to motivate a crying call if there are two players left in the hand?

Usually, Bet and call 1 back. Since this card completes several possible draws, I'm OK checking.

bk

Freudian · #5 01-15-2005, 10:46 PM

Well, my problem is that I don't raise enough preflop so it's the little devil that tells me not to reraise (Hilger that has RR1, Call 2 for a raised preflop hand from SB. His weak preflop ideas have unfortunately influenced me a bit).

Yes, I meant MP3. I had no clear read on him but I thought it would be a good chance he would bet on the flop here.

River was hard. Basically I went for least painful route here. I could see no better hand folding to a bet but there would a good chance a worse hand might bet (A 6 or a lower PP) and a better hand raising me. Not having any read at all on CO made it harder. Value betting is definately one of the areas where I have leaks though.

edit: My reasoning for what I would do on the turn is messed up. Anyway, the basic point was that I would respect a raise from CO more than one from UTG+1. The problem is how I should treat a player I have zero hands against. Treat him as a good player or a fish (until proven otherwise)?

Nick Royale · #6 01-15-2005, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Should I reraise preflop?

It's good you're looking to increase your PFR, but don't just raise more for no reason. Out of position in a 7-way pot this is a situation where you could raise, but don't have to. In this situation it makes sense to forego the edge preflop to make up more postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Getting most of the field calling two bets by raising JJ here is great! It should be mandatory.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Flop. Betting vs going or the c/r was 50/50 in my mind.

Out of position against 7 players, I go for a checkraise much more often than 50/50. Checkraising if you think UTG will bet is essential.

[/ QUOTE ]
Love this check/raise since the bet is likely to come from MP3. Check/raising if you suspect the bet coming from UTG would be useless.

[ QUOTE ]
Usually, Bet and call 1 back. Since this card completes several possible draws, I'm OK checking.

[/ QUOTE ]
I often bet slim valuebets, but this is very slim. The 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] completes the flush draw and straight draw. You might be up against Ax and the only possible calling hands that you beat are a lower PP or 6x. I rarely like check/call in thios situation, but maybe that's the best option.

Nick Royale · #7 01-15-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why? With no one showing aggression and the PFR out of the picture, seems like an easy value bet to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't be that easy. The 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] most of the possible draws and you might be up against Ax. Only hand you beat that might call is a lower PP or 6x.

royaltrux · #8 01-15-2005, 11:49 PM

Raise PF.
River could go either way.

Always treat an unknown player as good until proven otherwise.