Live Hand: Pop it now or later?

[JojoDiego]

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Really? Thats a little weak tight don't you think? As for the "mindset" its based on what is likely since it is very difficult to put either of them on a hand due to their loose limping ranges.

On the flop we're behind a made flush (over 100:1), made straight J9 (another long shot), QQ, TT, 88 and QT and Q8. QQ we would likely have seen a raise preflop, TT or 88 only 1 combo each since I have the T and 8. QT and Q8 are somewhat reasonable possibilities (again I already have a T and 8). Anything else I'm ahead of. I'm ahead more often than not. With a straight and flush draw, its about 50/50. So what are you putting them on here? What are we fearing?

Don't forget we're getting something like 11:2 here.

Results soon.


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This is a classic fold your bottom two pair on the flop for 2 bets hand. I really don't like the mindset of some ppl to 'put them on a hand I am ahead of'.

One is betting the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] with a pair, the other is raising the naked A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I'd limp preflop as well, but I'm not even sure you are ahead on the flop. I'd muck.

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I don't see how you can fold here with that pot size, the strong chance you are ahead, and your 4 outs to a monster. So, do you call or 3-bet?

If you're ahead, certainly many turn cards can hurt you. But if you 3-bet, you very well may knock out folks drawing to a bigger 2 pair, sets, gutshots or backdoors. I'm therefore leaning toward protecting our hand here with the 3-bet. And if those weak draws call incorrectly, you've gained much value, correct?

A big reason to wait for the turn is if a flop bet won't protect your hand, right? It appears a reraise here will protect your hand.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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This is a classic fold your bottom two pair on the flop for 2 bets hand.

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Is that a classic? Not one that I have heard -- but this might be a good situation to step back from the hand.

Think about how many scare cards are there on the turn? I think any spade, A, K, Q, J, or 9 is very scary. About half the deck scares us -- and we may already be behind.

Of course there are redraws (unless a villain gets his straight flush).

That being said, I call or raise -- depending on how I feel the rest of the pool will respond -- because I envision a large number of chips eventually joining my stacks.

[Roadstar]

Ok here is what happened. First I'll go through my thought process. Tell me whether you agree or disagree and why (thats more important than the results):

1) I recognized that there aren't that many safe cards on the turn that I could pop in a raise.

2) Having said that I also thought I was ahead on the flop, although my edge may not be that high with the monotone board and the action before me.

3) A 3 bet could potentially buy me a free card on the turn even if a spade falls - i.e. I anticipate one of the donks to suffer from fancy play syndrome and go for a check raise on a spade turn.


Based on the 3 reasons, I 3 bet, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn was a 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG+1 checks, I bet, UTG+1 folds.

Comments?