ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED

[faustusmedea]

Here's the thing.

When someone posts such as the thread starter, they might just as well be planted by someone seeking to hide impropriety because the responses are pretty easily predicted.

The problem is; most big time financial folks understand the concept of shearing sheep as well as the power of large numbers of small transactions. Once big money comes along in any endeavor, there will be computer simulations put together to determine methods for increasing the numbers.

I recall a story about vegas casinos a while back. The idea was to create viable defenses against card counters. One study was prepared that suggested if multiple decks were put into the shoe at the beginning of the day with the cards configured AthruK KthruA AthruK KthruA, the resulting clumping of big card/small card groups would persist through many shuffles. Now, I don't know if its true, but I do know that that is how a standard deck of Kem cards comes now. I also know that the casinos no longer pay out 5 card charlies which theoretically would not be more prevalent in a multiple deck situation.

For the online poker rooms, I am certain with the data they have, they can easily determine the percentages of winners/losers at each level. Further, they can easily shape the data to determine if weak players are being chased too quickly.

So, my question is: Why wouldn't an online cardroom find algorithms that throw exceedingly small disadvantages at better players from time to time in order to prolong both their play as well as the fish in the tank.

For my part, I am up significantly online. Most of this has come from a number of large tourney cashes. In the 15/30 Party game, I am up slightly after 50k hands. Recently in vegas, I was playing with math guy; Paul Magriel and he scoffed at the notion of 25k hands not being enough to determine whether you are a winning player, yet all you need to do is troll the High limit forum and you see horror stories galore of 3-400BB downswings with variance being the biggest challenge to long term success.

The additional component to this is the pro player typically runs a minimum of 3 tables and a lot of folks are doing many more than that. This creates an effect where a lot of raked hands are generated, but it absolutely HAS to put real pressure on the fishing. With the current upsurge in popularity, there is obviously a greater influx and an evergrowing pool of players, but it isn't infinite and somebody looking to; say take a gaming site public would want to grow numbers incrementally and keep them growing quarter over quarter.

Now, to dispute the above, you might say look at the hand histories. And sure enough, over 50k hands I have a near perfect distribution of starting hands. But imagine a sophisticated shuffle that could distribute premium holdings with a slightly unfavorable position. Again, don't think "All AA would be given to the player UTG". Think more that AA is dealt on average the same amount in any position, then you skew the shuffle slightly to MP and early position over a small number of these hands. A computer simulation could easily show the winning percentage changes based on such movement. And because we aren't talking big changes, it probably would not look suspicious unless you could compare multiple player databases; something not likely to occur ;-) Remember, this is all taking place on essentially large database software so creating such models would be trivially easy. There is an interesting thread in the high limit forum about a guy with what are essentially losing player stats, yet he has crushed the game over a huge number of hands. Is he the one in a million?

In reality, Rake back programs may simply be the wink from the company to professional player as to what is occurring. They don't really want to kill the pro, they simply want to manage the resource much as your local Fish and Game department does.

Bottom line; things are seldom as they appear on this planet and if there is an extra dollar to be raked, online poker sites, drug and oil companies or nations will find a way to do so. I have also posted about more sophisticated collusion issues that also fight the general consensus.

Time to go make up some new tinfoil hats for the rest of the week's play. Good luck.

[Zeno]

Randi is a debunker, in the same mold as Houdini was a debunker of mediums in the 1920's. A magician that exposes frauds that use magic tricks to promote so called psychic powers to bilk people out of money etc. He is not a formal scientist, but he is useful in that he has exposed many frauds and quacks. He is associated with an organization called CSICOP that publishes The Skeptical Inquirer. A useful magazine, if not very well known.

They have a website: CSICOP

-Zeno

I think you are right. If I stop playing for a week or so, I suddenly get great hands for the first few times I return.I wonder if others have noticed this.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Randi is a debunker, in the same mold as Houdini was a debunker of mediums in the 1920's. A magician that exposes frauds that use magic tricks to promote so called psychic powers to bilk people out of money etc. He is not a formal scientist, but he is useful in that he has exposed many frauds and quacks. He is associated with an organization called CSICOP that publishes The Skeptical Inquirer. A useful magazine, if not very well known.
-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]
They have a website: CSICOP

Some of the founding members of CSICOP included scientists, academics, and science writers such as Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Philip Klass, Paul Kurtz, Ray Hyman, James Randi, Martin Gardner, Sidney Hook, and others. A list of CSICOP fellows is published in every issue of Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

You might also try this link - http://www.randi.org/

[The Mang]

Which online rooms are you talking about specifically?

As in any industry, I am sure there are some online poker rooms that don't play entirely by the rules in the name of making a higher short-term profit.

The odds of foul-play increase when you take into account the amazing number of online rooms, and that the industry has been able to position itself to be relatively free from regulation.

[LoveMyAces]

Great post faustusmedia. Finally some brains in one of these posts. I became suspicious a while back when it seemed the cards could be good for awhile and suddenly bad. More swings than any I have seen in a live game. The thing is if you try to find out how the RNG is tested and verified while in use and safegaurded from tampering you can find out nothing. I have emailed BMM, Iglobal, and other verification sites and not one returned my email. If they are completely honest and using great methods to insure that the deals are honest why is it you get smoke and mirrors when you try to find out the methods? If you go to the web sites of these verification firms you get a run around. At the Poker web sites where you play you get a hazy picture and run around. If this is being done fairly and honestly why not show the exact method of testing, verification, and tamper proofing of the RNG in live use play? They should be screaming this from the roof. It should be in every banner add and a complete page dedicated to it on the sites where you play. Why don't they want the us to know? Has anyone else tried to dig out this information?

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I feel myself slipping into distribution mode, I set up a new account and get back into win mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

[ianlippert]

First let me say that I have been a winning player at the lower limits for the past 30K hands. I have basically grinded my way from .01/.02 to 1/2. I just hit my first 150BB losing streak and it seems like there is no end in sight.

I have to say that the idea that the sites rig the dealing is absolutely rediculous. For several reasons:

First of all there arent that many sharks. According to another post I read a while back, only about 10-15% of the players in any player pool are long time winners. The rest of the pool consists of fish that exchange their money back and forth while the sites eat them up with the rake.

Second of all the sharks arent actually taking that much money from the fish. Lets assume that out of 100 players 15 are averaging 1BB/hr for 15BB/hr from the fish. That is a cost of about .175BB/hr charged to each fish. At 1/2 this means that the average fish will get 285 hrs of play out $100. I see no reason why the card site would risk the millions of dollars they are making just to increase this to 300+hr/$100. How much more can they possibly make? There are ppl tracking a rediculous amount of hands, a site will get discovered.

Third, they dont need to do anything to ensure that the fish stick around. People love to gamble! I dont understand it much, but ppl love to play craps/roulette/lottos and will gladly throw their money away, and then come back and do it again!

what the conspiray theorists fail to realise is that its not the sites that are rigged, its the game. Texas holdem probably has the highest amount of luck involved out of any form of poker (from what I've read at least, I dont play anything else). It also has a very high degree of skill, its pure brilliance. Why do you think its the most popular form of poker? It keeps the fish around. Love it for what it is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[dark_avenger]

I make shittons of money playing online.

I do not know any mafia members or am connected to them in any way.

rake from 1000's of people >> taking one person's bankroll and giving it to a shill and then getting caught and going out of business

maybe you just suck

posts like this make me laugh at the stupidity of some people, it's sad to see that they're making their way into 2+2 however.

oh yeah, and your friends suck too.

just cuz you can beat the 3-6 or 5-10 at commerce or whatever fish pond you play at doesn't mean you're a good player who can play the same limits online and make money.

wanna play heads up sometime?

go read a f-ing book, learn some math, and then come back and post something meaningfull

[Card08]

Yeah, this genius is signing up for accounts on forums all over the net and putting up the exact same bullxxxx post. see

http://www.pokerforums.org/showthread.php?t=3246
"stockman27
Fish Food Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2


ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED

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Before you lose your whole roll playing online poker I just wanted to tell you to stick to live game play. Online poker is rigged 100% & if you continue to play you will lose all of your money. I am a professinal poker player trying to get the word out. I make a living playing live games & consistently dominate these games. After losing constantly online I decided to do some studies & research these randomness of the cards & came to the 100% conclusion that they are set against you. I have several friends that play professionally & know many more that do & have never known anyone that could beat the online game consistently. If youre winning now its only because the site has you in win mode & soon you will hit distribution mode. New accounts & poorer players are givin better flops to keep tables full so the sharks wont take all their money, this keeps tables full & rake up. They also have site shills that play for site to take your roll. I learned the hard way. I hope to spread the word. These sites are mafia run & locate offshores so they are not regulated. Oh & ive heard all the #$%^ about why they wouldnt rig because its not in their interest. These are nieve gullables or paid site shills. The rake is no competition for taking your whole bankroll. Those who dont believe in conspiracy are fair game for those who conspire. The @#%% with the illuminati & all those work for them.
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Don't act like a nieve gullable; ignore this guy.