Crying Calls. . .

[toddw8]

4 Hands here. Which should I have folded and which should I have called down?

Hand #1:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Jh Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Button shows 7c Qc (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Button wins 14 BB. </font>

Hand #2:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.70 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Qd Qs (one pair, queens).
MP2 shows 4h Th (flush, ten high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 11.70 BB. </font>

Hand #3:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (14.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 17.70 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 7h 8s (three of a kind, sevens).
UTG+2 shows 3h 7s (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero shows Ad Jh (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins 8.85 BB. UTG+2 wins 8.85 BB. </font>

Hand #4:

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+1 shows 2c Jc (flush, ace high).
MP1 shows (flush, ace high).
Hero shows Ah 9s (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14.50 BB. </font>

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Todd,

Calls on the river are based on pot odds. Nothing else. It's kind of been the mantra around here to "not fold big hands in big pots" on the river for one bet. I don't really agree with that blanket statement. In Hand 1, you're getting 13:1 on your call. Is your hand good here once out of 14 times against this specific opponent on this specific board after this specific action? After you take all these things into consideration, you should come up with a number (My hand is good here once out of x times). If this number is lower than 14, then call. If it's higher than 14, then you have a clear, clear, clear fold. It really is that simple. It doesn't matter how much higher than 14 your number ends up being. If it's 14.5, you have a clear-cut fold.

Having said that, Hands 1 and 2 look to be decent calls, but it really depends on your opponent. You were at the table and saw the hands prior to these, so nobody can really tell you whether your calls in these 2 hands were good or bad but you.

Hand 3 and 4 are very clear. In Hand 3, you have to fold the turn when your opponent 3-bets. In Hand 4, you have a clear fold on the river, ESPECIALLY after his raise gets cold-called, but even if MP folded, you should still fold here.

GoT

[toddw8]

Thanks a lot, Guy. Your response is tremendously helpful.

I now realize that I've been making decisions in these types of situations based almost purely on feel. My thinking usually goes something like: Well. . . the pot is pretty big. . . and it is only one more BB. . . and I might win. . . so I'll call

It makes sense now that someone has put it into words for me. My decisions on other streets are made based on pot odds, so why should the river be any different?

[afk]

Hey toddw8, it was nice to see you at the table the other day.

I think you played 1 and 2 fine - or at least I would have played them the same way.
Hand 3 I would have tossed it on the river. UTG+2's raise just screams to me that he's got something.

Hand 4 I would have mucked preflop. I've noticed that my small blind pre-flop hand selection (I go by the HPFAP rankings) is too loose for less than half a small bet. I think it's a definite leak in my game so I've made a conscious effort to tighten up. I'm trying to call down to group 5 or 6 hands at the lowest. Perhaps my reasoning is way off, if anyone can point out the error in my ways please FIX ME NOW!

edit: I also want to thank GoT for his response. And I also want to thank all of the other veterans and good players around here that take the time to wander in to our micro forum to help us out. It's vastly appreciated.