KK against an Eagle

shadow29 · #1 12-19-2004, 01:36 AM

SB is an Eagle- 12%, 9%, 1.10
Button is Fish- 55%, 5%, 0.22

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (21 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

bigchips · #2 12-19-2004, 02:51 AM

If the SB had AA, KK, TT, 88 or 33 (unlikely) he would've likely 3 bet the flop. If SB were on a spade (or maybe even heart) flush draw he would have probably 3 bet. He likely has 2 overcards like AK or AQ possibly suited.

Raising on the turn might have given more information but it would have cost you two bets to find out how strong SB's holdings were. The fact that he came out betting on the turn after your two bet on the flop probably means he improved, which means his aces beats your kings. If he bet out the river or 3 bet the turn after your raise you would know you were beat and could fold. You probably played it the right way all things considered though KK is a hard lay down.

I'd like to hear others views.

ThreeAces · #3 12-19-2004, 02:56 AM

I'm sorry, but I think that this is a horrible fold. If your opponent is an "Eagle," then it seems just as likely that he's betting into you on JJ or QQ as he is AA or TT. Don't assume BB has an Ace; at 5% PFR he'd raise on AQ or AK, right? He and CO may well just be calling because of the size of the pot. You should call or raise for this reason too.

bigchips · #4 12-19-2004, 03:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I think that this is a horrible fold. If your opponent is an "Eagle," then it seems just as likely that he's betting into you on JJ or QQ as he is AA or TT. Don't assume BB has an Ace; at 5% PFR he'd raise on AQ or AK, right? He and CO may well just be calling because of the size of the pot. You should call or raise for this reason too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. He may have QQ or JJ based on his preflop play and turn play so calling down or even raising the turn might be the best move. His turn bet could have been to scare off pocket pairs like KK from a showdown.

the_rookie · #5 12-19-2004, 03:14 AM

I'd raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet against an eagle. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
This could be a leak in my game and I'm wondering what others think is the best move here.

SlantNGo · #6 12-19-2004, 03:15 AM

Call turn, call river, which costs the same as raising the turn. In addition, raising the turn might be enough to make the eagle fold his QQ. Are you good here 1 in 8? I think so, call down.

pointcount · #7 12-19-2004, 04:09 AM

Just some of my thoughts
Is AQ an acceptable cap for an eagle (TA-N) on the SB? I'd be sceptical if it was.

I'd probably check raise the turn if I did have Ax (am I alone?)

I would also 3-bet the flop with AA, KK, QQ or JJ

I would have thought it possible he had TT (although I think this is too loose for PFR5%) and smooth called the flop to c/r the turn but that didnt happen so..

My guess is AKs, tried to lead the flop after the PF cap, then hits on the turn. Many people disagree? Regardless for 14BB I'm calling down here.

shadow29 · #8 12-19-2004, 01:01 PM

I think that a lot of you guys got too attached to the Kings. An Eagle who raises 5% of his hands (this is after 200 hands or so) is raising 8 hands.

AA
KK
QQ
JJ
TT
AKs
AKo
AQs

Five of the eight have me in bad shape. I have one of the eight. That leaves Queens and Jacks. I think we can rule those out based on the turn, I am pretty sure.

Any others?

DMBFan23 · #9 12-19-2004, 02:43 PM

forget the raising hands, think about the opponent's capping hands. You're up against AA-QQ or AKs, with a very small outside possibility of TT, JJ, and AQs. you are not good one time in 8 here.

It's not like he's even overly aggressive postflop based on your read, he probably isnt going nuts with JJ here. if QQ made you fold the best hand, then I'm sorry. but I like your play.

DMBFan23 · #10 12-19-2004, 02:44 PM

SB's postflop action indicates AK to me