KK : Bad beat or my failure to protect.

[stankphish]

Thats nice but you picked a bad spot with a vulnerable hand.

[QTip]

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I'm sure most have read HEPFAP but you're misapplying a concept as well as aplying it to the wrong game.

The board is drawy as hell. There's a really good chance that someone has a gutshot on this board if not an OESD. You really cannot check this turn with an overpair and a gutshot yourself -- having this get checked through would be an absolute disaster for you and you have no reason to believe that one of these guys is going to bet for you. You'll be much better off if you stop looking for places to make a fancy move and play the vast majority of your hands straightforwardly.

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Perfect response.

Crispy, have you read Small Stakes Holdem yet? Here's a quote from that book:
Here's a quote from the "Using This Book" section in SSHE pages 11 and 12.

"We anticpate that some people will compare the advice in this book to that given in Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players by .. For some situations, we may advise you to do one thing here but another there. This represents neither a retraction of previous advice nor a cntradiction. In Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, we assume that your opponents play reasonable well. In this book, we assume that many of your opponents play poorly: specifically, that they play too many hands and go too far with them. The different assumptions can cause you to draw two totally different conclusions in situations that seem almost identical! So if you find two pieces of advice that seem to contradict one another, thing about how your opponents' tendencies might cause the correct play to change."

[soweak.]

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WOuld my play be more appropriate if the turn card came a blank?

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No. You're talked about your opponents being "fishy". To try to put them on ranges of hands is quite difficult. To check to them with a nice hand is a bad idea. Get your money from the fish by betting. Don't get involved in fancy play.

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I would tend to disagree with this statement. whether or not to check/raise the turn has to do with the texture of the board as well as your opponents post-flop aggression. If they're fishy/aggro if the turn is a total blank (like a rainbow deuce) I will often check if my opponents are aggressive enough that I feel confident they will bet the turn for me. After all, why get just two BB's from hands that are drawing slim to ours when there's a chance we can extrace two more from them.

I also agree with the quote to vary your play on later streets as it may come in hands when you do have overcards on a flop like this, and it's checked through for you. Varying your play shouldn't bet at teh top of the list in small stakes games, but in obvious situations like this, I will often take a gamble to try and eek outout two BB's from the fish.

[QTip]

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I guess I can see why I should bet the turn because giving any free cards could really hurt me and I want to get value for my hand. WOuld my play be more appropriate if the turn card came a blank?

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Misapplication is a very common thing for me as well. I read something, get really excited about the idea, and then go looking for places to make it happen. This often ends up forcing the line into a situation where some fundamental theory for the line is completely shattered.

[Crispy]

Thanks you guys. I see know that I picked a horrible place to apply the concept, however. Looking on the hand, not only was I ahead with my KK, I even had more outs for the J would have given me the nutsraight. But with the board being drawy as hell I should have just bet out. THanks for the help.