Bad play or bad beat?

[Stoneii]

Without a shadow I'd push here just about every time. I don't normally say so definitively since I'm a learner but, in the vast majority of cases I am ahead here post flop. If however, I don't push I have to expect bigger cards to fall, then I haven't a clue how good the hand is any more and either have to lay down or make crying calls.

I like to give my opponents the chance to give me the pot there and then. 5 outer is just that!!

Unlucky

stoneii

[LetsRock]

I think it's pretty poor play by your opponent and he got lucky. Maybe a bigger flop bet (shove them in right away?)would have kept him from getting so interested? I think he got caught up with thinking he was best with your smallish bet, but somehow I doubt it would have made a difference. Only other option would have been to try for a check-raise (all-in) on the flop.

You can't fold really fold this hand with that flop, so I think you just caught some bad luck.

[jaydoggie]

Ok please explain what I am missing, cleary.

you are in the SB (always the first to act)
flop J-8-5.
you bet. he raises. you know your opponent will do this with a draw, or top pair.

possible holdinings:
AJ,KJ,QJ,JT
T9,67
two clubs.
88,55

now you arent completely sure what he's holding because his cards are still face down. so if you do not push here, lets imagine the turn comes; A,K,Q,T,9,4,J or a club. that is over half the deck. true not EVERY one of those cards ACTUALLY help his hand, however his cards are faced dwon and you put him on a hand above. now you get called, the turn falls, you lead. its one of half the cards in the deck that could improve him. check and let him bet, now you have to make a crying call, or lay it down. or lead out. the only reasonable bet in comparison to the pot is allin, IMO. the pot the pot is atleast 1700. you have 980.

please tell me why you reraise, get called and see a turn. if you raise 600. youve got 870 invested. (30 BB/100bet/140raise/600reraise) and 980 left in your stack.

someone please give me the reason NOT to push. im a 5$ player and starting to doubt my ability to even win at this stupid game, so i could easily be wrong.

[triplc]

[ QUOTE ]
please tell me why you reraise, get called and see a turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are assuming you are going to get called. Your opponent has three options, call, raise or fold. But let's assume that he does call my 600 raise.

OK, there are a ton of scare cards...so what. The only hand that gives him more than 9 outs is 67c. Suppose a scare card does come on the turn. The point is that it is still highly unlikely to have hit him. Less likely than if you let him see the next two cards. If it hits him, and you bet out, yes, you're dead. But you're dead if you push all-in and he calls and his card hits in the next two...Besides, we all know its the river that does us in every time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

If he calls, and a scare card comes, it does make this situation tough, but there is a small chance that a scare card doesn't come, and there is a great chance that the scare card didn't hit him.

Please don't misinterpet me here. I think pushing in here was not a bad play; I think it was a very good play. Her opponent made a huge mistake by calling, and got bailed by luck. But I am starting to wonder about pushing all in when covered in a situation where I might be beaten (JJ, 88, 55) or I might be up against more than 5 outs. As you said, the cards are face down, and I don't know how much of a favorite I am at this point...or if I'm even a favorite. By raising not all-in with the best hand, I am forcing him into another mistake by calling, and I am giving myself an option to bail out with a healthy amount of chips if he reraises me back. This is still very early, and with 980 and the blinds at 15/30 I still have a lot of time to do damage with those chips.

I am no expert...I play $10 games and I don't play them spectacularly, but I've been drawn on enough times by big stacks (bigger than mine, anyway) to at least ponder other options before sliding the bar all the way to the right and committing all of my chips. Timid...perhaps. Once (hell, way more than once) bitten, twice shy.