My Girlfriend

Chairman Wood · #1 11-30-2004, 10:53 PM

Why title this post my girlfriend, you may ask? Much like the people in this hand, I can't think of a way to make her go away. I am pretty lost here, not really sure what I could do or should do. Thoughts of hand protection and waiting until turn to check raise were running through my head. Comments on all streets appreciated.

No PT reads on anyone however, in about 3 orbits, all of the guys involved in this hand when the flop hits are jokers (i guess that would include me but draw your own opinion). I saw a hand earlier where UTG and MP1 capped it preflop and I think UTG won later without showdown. I also saw UTG limp 3-bet once with 44. I believe MP1 may have a capping fetish. UTG +1 may have a VPIP of like 95. I don't remember him showing too much aggression ever. All in all the kind of players you put on your buddy list.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, MP3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.
Plan on turn was to fold if I was 3-bet? Good idea, bad idea let me know about that idea too.

River: (20.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 22.75 BB
Main Pot: 22.75 BB, between Hero and UTG.

Cheers

pokerkai · #2 11-30-2004, 11:21 PM

Id 3bet the flop if theyre all as loose as you say.

The plan of raising the turn and folding to a 3bet is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD thinking. Against these sort of players, you really want to show your hand down. Raise the turn, call down if you get 3bet.

Bill C · #3 12-01-2004, 12:25 AM

AQo is too easily dominated. It's a "big pair" hand, but the betting tells you a big pair won't cut it. The initial raise may be OK. But calling the cap was not. This was the time to get out. UTG is sandbagging with his early call and then ultimately calling th cap, (then later, betting right out on the flop, and ultimately 3 betting on that round.) He has heavy artillary and it's pointed right at you.

The Flop is obvious, too. The betting is telling you that a Q is probably not going to be enough. Calling 3 raises with this hand may cost you $$ in the end. UTG is betting like he has pocket Aces, Kings or a five.

What's with the chk/Rz on the turn? Two opponents willing to call 3 bets P/F and on the flop (and now 2 bets on the double bet round) is sending you a strong message. They can beat your Queen. Had it been just one of them, I could see some skepticism, but with two of them, you're a dead duck. I can (barely) see betting on the turn to see what's up, but not ck-rzing. UTG again called a double bet. The 3 bet plan wasn't such a hot idea IMO.

I would have thought ck/call would be the idea on the river, if you went that far, or maybe ck/fold. Your bet opened you up to a raise, which didn't come, but you couldn't know that in advance, especially the way the betting went thru all the hand.
What would you have done if he had raised it?

bill

edthayer · #4 12-01-2004, 12:35 AM

Bill:

Against ordinary players or unknowns, I'd agree with you. However, the read Hero has on these guys makes them out to be poor players that overplay their hands. I still get scared pushing my small edges against these types of players when the chips start to fly, but in the long run, it should usually work, right?

Chairman Wood · #5 12-01-2004, 01:13 AM

I completly agree with you; if the raises were to come from somewhere else. The cap essentially left me with a big pot against a bunch of punks. A limp reraise to me usually spells AA KK, AKs or QQ from a decent player. These guys, were plain bad. Might even do this with a small pocket pair. Regardless, postflop is there anyway to protect this hand? I was hoping a bet would come from MP1 so I could c/r on the turn that is all. Knowing that hand protection may not come anything else? Throw raises anywhere for value?

Chairman Wood · #6 12-01-2004, 03:37 AM

If anyone wants to know I split the pot with UTG's AQ

smoore · #7 12-01-2004, 04:17 AM

yeah man... party 2/4 with serious LAG and LP dumbass players? stop and GOGOGO! You did right for that game, that read.

MrFeelNothin · #8 12-01-2004, 04:41 AM

Bill- that is seriously weak tight advice. You want him to raise preflop, then fold when its capped back to him? That is just ridiculous. And I dont care how many bets go in on this flop, I flopped TPTK on a ragged board in a huge pot, I'm going to showdown, likely bet/raising until someone gives me a real reason to stop.

joker122 · #9 12-01-2004, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bill- that is seriously weak tight advice. You want him to raise preflop, then fold when its capped back to him? That is just ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not ridiculous at all. i can think of several hands that i'd fold to a cap after raising: KQo, KJs, AJo, ATo, etc. AQo is close but folding certainly isn't ridiculous.

MrFeelNothin · #10 12-01-2004, 05:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i can think of several hands that i'd fold to a cap after raising: KQo, KJs, AJo, ATo, etc. AQo is close but folding certainly isn't ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't have any of those hands. He has AQo, and he should certainly not be folding this preflop. Maybe ridiculous is overstated, but Bill's advice is pretty weak and poor and for that reason I exaggerated my point. Be sure to consider his reads here.