KTo, Blind on blind

Azhrarn · #1 09-02-2005, 04:43 PM

No read on the villain.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Seemed like a good bluffing card. I was planning to check behind on the river if I didn't improve.

River: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Thoughts? I'm particularly interested in the flop. Once I get checkraised, is it an easy call? An easy fold? Somewhere in-between? The flop is draw-heavy.

W. Deranged · #2 09-02-2005, 04:46 PM

I really don't like the turn raise because:

1. Villain is unlikely to fold any pair here in a heads-up pot.

2. You will sometimes get three-bet by two pairs, sets, QJ, whatever, and you still have many live outs. (Remember: play the turn lightly with lots of outs because getting raised really really sucks).

3. Your hand simply does not have enough showdown value.

Play straightforwardly here. It's the best way to go:

Call the flop check-raise. Call the turn. Raise the river if you hit a straight and probably a K. Fold everything else except a T with the right read.

private joker · #3 09-02-2005, 04:51 PM

I'd fold to the flop c/r. Yes, it's draw-heavy, but most people either bet or check/call drawing hands, not check-raise them. Without a read, I'm going to assume he has a pair and you have about 3 outs if he has a J.

hobbsmann · #4 09-02-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the turn raise because:

1. Villain is unlikely to fold any pair here in a heads-up pot.

2. You will sometimes get three-bet by two pairs, sets, QJ, whatever, and you still have many live outs. (Remember: play the turn lightly with lots of outs because getting raised really really sucks).

3. Your hand simply does not have enough showdown value.

Play straightforwardly here. It's the best way to go:

Call the flop check-raise. Call the turn. Raise the river if you hit a straight and probably a K. Fold everything else except a T with the right read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I started typing up a response to this hand, but didn't like what I was writing out. Anyway, this basically sums up my feelings as well, especially the part about SB not folding pairs in heads up pots. Also the flop call is good because sb is probably c/r'ing very light here so there is a fair chance that both of your pair outs are good and thus you have odds to continue.

W. Deranged · #5 09-02-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold to the flop c/r. Yes, it's draw-heavy, but most people either bet or check/call drawing hands, not check-raise them. Without a read, I'm going to assume he has a pair and you have about 3 outs if he has a J.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am absolutely calling the flop check-raise like every time for metagame reasons.

I simply hate folding to one small bet in a heads-up pot. I damn well want my opponents believing they're going to have to put that big bet in on the turn if they are trying to make a move on me.

In live games it's not even close. Online maybe I can fold this but I don't want my friends finding out...

#6 09-02-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold to the flop c/r. Yes, it's draw-heavy, but most people either bet or check/call drawing hands, not check-raise them. Without a read, I'm going to assume he has a pair and you have about 3 outs if he has a J.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am absolutely calling the flop check-raise like every time for metagame reasons.

I simply hate folding to one small bet in a heads-up pot. I damn well want my opponents believing they're going to have to put that big bet in on the turn if they are trying to make a move on me.

In live games it's not even close. Online maybe I can fold this but I don't want my friends finding out...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree I'm calling this flop but I'm not check raising the turn.

Well, not now. The me of three weeks ago would have check raised the turn, but the me since then has stopped doing that when the opponent will almost NEVER fold in this situation