Poker and art and 10,000 words.

[cianosheehan]

Hello everyone
I hope this is the best place to post this one;

I am going into my final year of a Fine Art degree. In our last year, we have to write a 10k word thesis, on basically any topic we wish. While the topic does not have to directly relate to art, it does have to have some relevance and connection with it. Now, after a Summer of poker poker poker, poker is nearly all I can think about. I thought it would be great, and probably quite unique, to try and write my thesis on poker. But I cant establish in my mind what the best way of going about it is. When I start the year, I will be able to talk to different tutors about my situation, but I just wanted to put the question out here, to see if anyone would have any inspiring thoughts on the subject. Have you ever thought of poker as an art? In what ways do you connect poker with everyday life? In what ways do you see poker reflecting in everyday life? Do you see the way you approach/play poker, as a reflection of yourself?

These are just loose questions to hopefully get some thoughts going, and any advancement in the conversation would be truly appreciated.

All the best.
-Cian

[Mark H]

Hi Cian Poker was a life change for me. I started playing regularly 4 years ago. I was dumb but wanted to get better. I started reading and thinking.I used to be superstious but im getting better. I used to be very shy now on my good days im the life of the poker table. I used to blame others now i dont. I think about things more logicaly. I quit drinking. i became agnostic.Iam into self analisis. I am not very creative and dont know how to conect it to art but i hope this helps Mark H

[ohiou]

I'm an attorney with not one once of artistic ability, but I do know how to come up with a topic for a thesis. My first thought is how the dynamics of a poker table reflect life. Different people, different races all coming together on an equal playing field.

It is the whole "Original Position" political theory (by John Rawls I think but it has been awhile). You know the whole utopian microcosm thing.

Just my first thought, I'll see what else comes to mind. Hope this helps at least get the wheels turning.

[Monty Cantsin]

Ludwig Wittgenstein [Blue Book (p. 65)]: "I want to play chess, and a man gives the white king a paper crown, leaving the use of the pieces unaltered, but telling me that the crown has a meaning to him in the game, which he can't express by rules. I say: 'as long as it doesn't alter the use the piece, it hasn't what I call a meaning'.'"

Here is a picture of Marcel Duchamp in front of a chessboard. But why has he set the board up backwards? Everyone knows that the white square is supposed to go in the lower right.

Here is another picture of Duchamp playing chess. Instead of making art. What did you do all summer?

Johan Huizinga: "The spirit of playful competition is, as a social impulse, older than culture itself and pervades all life like a veritable ferment. Ritual grew up in sacred play; poetry was born in play and nourished on play; music and dancing were pure play....We have to conclude, therefore, that civilization is, in its earliest phases, played. It does not come from play...it arises in and as play, and never leaves it."

What did you do all summer?

/mc

[Scotch78]

The expression of emotions factors largely in both poker and art, so how about that? In what ways do untrained poker players/artists express certain emotions? i.e. betting more aggressively or painting in red and black when angry. How do the expressions of a trained player/artist differ from this? i.e. sitting out a round to calm down or painting red and black with sharp lines and angles. I know Al Schoonmaker's book "The Psychology of Poker" addresses this topic some, and you could probably PM him to get recommendations for further reading too.

Scott

[Mayhap]

Hey Cian,
I think it would certainly be unique for you to write your thesis on poker. However, I think it would be incongruent. Very much like topping an ice cream sundae with a very fine calamata olive instead of a marachino cherry. You know, not that there is anything wrong with the olive itself .....
To be approaching the culmination of fine arts degree is a privledged and fortunate position. Please squeeze 10k out of why Berthe Morisot can get wonderful eyes out of a simple twist of the brush or the strength of women in pre-raphaelite art or sumpin like dat. DO the WORK ... it can only improve your poker mind which I'm sure is good already.
Mi dos centavos,
/M

[ddollevoet]

This is a tangent from poker, but I know that the artwork on playing cards have a history. You could write a paper on the evolution of playing cards (i.e. how their faces came into being and evolve to what we have today).

[golFUR]

If I knew how to write links to other threads I'd be set. Check my recent posts and you'll find I talk all the time about the 'creative' side to poker as opposed the numbers side. In a post just yesterday I used painting as an analogy for how some people approach poker.

To paraphrase: I can reduce a painting to a ream of paper full of numbers. I can talk about the %s of each color and ratios of open space to ink. List the elements and their constiuent subatomic parts, etc.

By the same token, just because poker is full of numbers does not mean there isn't a pretty picture under it all. Chess is a great analogy as well. When a perfectly brilliant move sends every GM observer into a giddy fit it still only gets a simple "43..Nc5!" in the annotation. A great trap might work the same way. And like chess you are going to find more art where the GMs are playing than where the patzers are playing. Read some hand histories from WSOP final tables of years past, specifically read up on Stu Ungar, if ever there was a poker artist, he was it.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
If I knew how to write links to other threads I'd be set.

[/ QUOTE ]

your wish : my command :: something : something else that is very similar

How to include links in your posts.

also, art != pretty pictures

/mc