$1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here??? - Page 7

adanthar · #61 12-06-2005, 08:30 PM

If these reads are 100% always correct etc. then of course you bet 1500/call a push and of course open pushing sucks. (Wow Raptor, you're totally right. How does nobody figure that in 40 posts?)

If you think your read is off often enough, you check and then push almost any non-spade turn when he bets, because that's how you'd play most 'better but vulnerable' hands there and he's gonna have real trouble calling that with only a draw. [Vs. this guy, I might play something like red aces this way. I wouldn't *necessarily* do it, but I might.] But you really want to be the last bet in this hand and you want to do it when you're not grossly overbetting so it looks legitimate/doesn't expose you - again, open pushing sucks.

tewall · #62 12-06-2005, 08:33 PM

Your friends were right. Pushing is terrible. Here's the differences between pushing and a regular bet:

1)You push.
a)With a hand like the one he has, he calls, just like he did.
b)With a hand you have crushed, he folds.

2)You make a smaller bet, he goes all-in, and you call. Then you are playing against the same hands as in a), plus you are also playing against the hands in b). So you chose a way of playing which gives you no overlay, as opposed to a way that does.

There's also the possibility that he will fold if you push, but his turning down a coin-flip in order rather than your getting into a situation where over half the time you have him crushed is not nearly as good for you as your getting all the chips in with much the better of it most of the time.

This isn't close.

Checking seems as viable as pushing, although not as good as his going over the top to your bet. If you check, and a spade doesn't come, and some card comes, like an Ace or the board pairs which you know doesn't help him, and he goes all-in, you can call with a bigger overlay than you get by pushing now. The point is, there are more non-scare cards than what you originally mentioned, because, according to your description, you know he doesn't a number of cards such as an Ace or anything pairing the board (and maybe some others).

citanul · #63 12-06-2005, 08:43 PM

dude, don't listen to raptor, there were a dozen posts saying bet and call a push.

just because raptor's illiterate doesn't mean that you have an excuse, you've got a professional degree!

c

adanthar · #64 12-06-2005, 08:46 PM

I'm not *that* illiterate, raptor was saying that open pushing blows and nobody had pointed it out which is true [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I *am* illiterate enough to try to say everything I'm thinking in three lines in order to hit'n'run more threads, but w/eva

citanul · #65 12-06-2005, 08:54 PM

indeed, the rest of us htought open pushing clearly blew and just gave the right line instead...

as it turns out though, raptor was wrong: he said that all sorts of garbage that would have pushed over a smaller bet will fold. villain called with garbage anyway... LOL!!!ONE

c

Double Down · #66 12-06-2005, 09:52 PM

I did this a few times and it did slow him down. As far as this hand with k7, it's not really good enough to limp reraise allin, especially since the blinds are so small.

Double Down · #67 12-06-2005, 09:58 PM

"as it turns out though, raptor was wrong: he said that all sorts of garbage that would have pushed over a smaller bet will fold. villain called with garbage anyway... LOL!!!ONE"

Villain didnt call with garbage. he had kj with the k of spades, so he thought he had 14 outs which would've made him the fave. he was just unlucky that I had the k so he only had 11 outs. I really like that idea of checking the flop and then check raising a turn bet, cuz then he won't be as inclined to gamble with a draw with only 1 card to come.

citanul · #68 12-06-2005, 10:03 PM

you can't checkraise a turn bet.

Double Down · #69 12-06-2005, 10:18 PM

LOL. u know what I mean. Raise.

#70 12-07-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"as it turns out though, raptor was wrong: he said that all sorts of garbage that would have pushed over a smaller bet will fold. villain called with garbage anyway... LOL!!!ONE"

Villain didnt call with garbage. he had kj with the k of spades, so he thought he had 14 outs which would've made him the fave. he was just unlucky that I had the k so he only had 11 outs. I really like that idea of checking the flop and then check raising a turn bet, cuz then he won't be as inclined to gamble with a draw with only 1 card to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm shocked that the hand he had was the only hand you seemed to consider possible.