Y U Don't fold against unknowns at 5/10 SH

fyodor · #1 04-07-2005, 07:24 PM

Just played these 2 hands at 2 different tables at the same time. In both cases I had no history on the opponents. I therefore assumed they were idiots.

6 handed I raise TT UTG, CO CC. 972 two tone. bet raise reraise call (972)9o bet raise call - he's saying he has a 9, I'm saying show me (9729)4 no flush, check bet call and he turns over K8s for the missed flush draw and mhig

5 handed utg raises, I 3 bet on the button KJo, BB calls, utg caps, all call K74 mono (I have the Jack) BB bets, UTG raises, I 3 bet, BB calls, UTG folds, (K74)2 for the 4 flush, he bets I call, River is offsuit Q, He bets I call and he shows 75 neither one of them for a flush and mhig

Unknowns at 5/10 6 max cannot be believed until they prove otherwise at which point they are no longer unknown

sthief09 · #2 04-07-2005, 07:26 PM

folding would be terrible in either case and wouldn't cross my mind

I don't particularly like 3-betting KJo on the button after an unknown UTG raises (even 5-handed)

Victor · #3 04-07-2005, 07:29 PM

congratualations. i havent won a showdown in 2 weeks.

MAxx · #4 04-07-2005, 07:35 PM

right, i agree... especially when heads up.

however, when an unkwown checkraises a large field on the turn.... i think it is more beleivable that homie has something good.

fyodor · #5 04-07-2005, 07:36 PM

right.. but I still don't believe him

MAxx · #6 04-07-2005, 07:42 PM

so in sitchuations where you have TPTK and the the flush completes on the turn (none of your suit) against 4 oponents and one of them chreckraises you after 2 others have called.

or top board card pairs and your opverpair gets cr'd in a similar action on the turn. you do not have odds to try and improve v trips. you are saying you dont believe unknown yet, so you call down?

you are saying you do not believe this unknown and you call down as SOP?

fyodor · #7 04-07-2005, 11:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
folding would be terrible in either case and wouldn't cross my mind

[/ QUOTE ]

This post wasn't so much about these particular hands. It was more inspired by Victor's AA laydown thread and meant to illustrate what unknowns can be betting.

The first guy raised with a draw twice even though I exhibited some interest in the flop, and the second guy turned out to be a complete fool.

Now I've got about 180k of 5/10 of my own hands plus over 300k of other observed hands, so if I see an unknown he is either someone who recently changed his id, someone who came from another limit, or just some fool. Normally it's the latter.

In reply to MAxx; certainly given some boards with too much action and too many opponents I will get out of the way even if they are all unknown and I am pretty sure they _are_ all just fools. Fools get hands too. If it isn't likely to cost more than a bet a street though and I have some chance of being good, I want to see for myself.

Victor · #8 04-07-2005, 11:36 PM

good post fyodor and your point is taken to heart.

i agree with calling down in these situations and in my aa post. the reasons are evident in this thread.

my post was born out of recently losing nearly every session and most showdowns. yes, i am on a downswing. i thought, maybe, i was calling down too much and bleading chips. the responses (including this thread) confirm that i was playing correctly in these situations before (when i always called down).