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#1
10-26-2005, 07:22 AM
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Wait for the turn to raise?
$2-$4,Hero in BB with Kd Kc. UTG has been loose passive and MP has been aggressive and fairly loose.
UTG calls, EP calls, EP+1 calls, MP calls, SB calls, hero RAISES, limpers call, MP RERAISES, SB calls, hero CAPS, all call. (24SB’s) Flop:5d, Qs, 2h: SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, EP RASIES, EP+1 RERAISES, MP calls, hero CAPS, all call (44SB’s) Turn: 3d. Hero bets, all call (27BB’s) River: 8h Hero bets, UTG folds, EP calls, EP+1 calls, MP folds I was worried about MP’s limp reraise but when he didn’t cap the flop I thought I was beating him. I’m wondering whether maybe it would have been better to wait for the turn to raise. If so is it a flop check/call, turn check/raise or flop bet/call, turn check/raise? My argument against waiting for the turn is that the pot is going to be over 20BB’s by then so I can’t even protect against a gutshot (that’s looking at it retrospectively however, if I just check/called a single bet on the flop then I would be able to protect) 
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#2
10-26-2005, 07:30 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
The board is incredibly ragged in this situation. SO I'm leaning towards jamming the flop as you have a huge equity edge. I know some may advocate c/c the flop but I like to jam in this spot.
JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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#3
10-26-2005, 07:50 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
[ QUOTE ]
I was worried about MP’s limp reraise [/ QUOTE ] Why? Why would he limp-reraise a big hand (i.e. AA-QQ) behind 3 limpers? [ QUOTE ] I’m wondering whether maybe it would have been better to wait for the turn to raise. [/ QUOTE ] It's not. Your concerns about protecting your hand are misplaced. After 6 players call 4 bets before the flop you can pretty much stop worrying about protecting your hand. Almost every hand is going to have correct odds to draw. Hands that don't have correct odds to draw are going to anyways because of the pot size. The way you played it is standard.
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#6
10-26-2005, 08:56 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I was worried about MP’s limp reraise [/ QUOTE ] Why? Why would he limp-reraise a big hand (i.e. AA-QQ) behind 3 limpers? [ QUOTE ] I’m wondering whether maybe it would have been better to wait for the turn to raise. [/ QUOTE ] It's not. Your concerns about protecting your hand are misplaced. After 6 players call 4 bets before the flop you can pretty much stop worrying about protecting your hand. Almost every hand is going to have correct odds to draw. Hands that don't have correct odds to draw are going to anyways because of the pot size. The way you played it is standard. [/ QUOTE ] Good point about the limp reraise, I guess he was just being very LAGGY. Regarding hand protection, say I check/call a single bet on the flop the pot would then be 30 SB’s. Lets say MP is being the aggressor and then bets again on turn, if I now raise, then EP and the rest are getting 8:1. Say they have a hand like A 4 (lets disregard the fact that a 3 fell on turn) then they should fold, and if they call they’re doing so incorrectly. Maybe I could even get someone with a 5 outer like A-5 or Q no kicker to fold, fearing that it gets reraised behind. Sure I’m losing value but I'm maximising my winning chances.
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#7
10-26-2005, 09:25 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
[ QUOTE ]
The board is incredibly ragged in this situation. SO I'm leaning towards jamming the flop as you have a huge equity edge. I know some may advocate c/c the flop but I like to jam in this spot. JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Agreed Nice table selection btw.
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#8
10-27-2005, 07:17 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding hand protection, say I check/call a single bet on the flop the pot would then be 30 SB’s. Lets say MP is being the aggressor and then bets again on turn, if I now raise, then EP and the rest are getting 8:1. Say they have a hand like A 4 (lets disregard the fact that a 3 fell on turn) then they should fold, and if they call they’re doing so incorrectly. Maybe I could even get someone with a 5 outer like A-5 or Q no kicker to fold, fearing that it gets reraised behind. Sure I’m losing value but I'm maximising my winning chances. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry to bump this guys but I'm very curious as your opinion on the above. I know that this plan is impossible with the way the hand played out and betting for value became best, but couldn't I at least try to protect with the above plan and adapt if necessary
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#9
10-27-2005, 07:29 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Regarding hand protection, say I check/call a single bet on the flop the pot would then be 30 SB’s. Lets say MP is being the aggressor and then bets again on turn, if I now raise, then EP and the rest are getting 8:1. Say they have a hand like A 4 (lets disregard the fact that a 3 fell on turn) then they should fold, and if they call they’re doing so incorrectly. Maybe I could even get someone with a 5 outer like A-5 or Q no kicker to fold, fearing that it gets reraised behind. Sure I’m losing value but I'm maximising my winning chances. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry to bump this guys but I'm very curious as your opinion on the above. I know that this plan is impossible with the way the hand played out and betting for value became best, but couldn't I at least try to protect with the above plan and adapt if necessary [/ QUOTE ] Getting cute in a big pot is bad because things can go wrong and you can miss tons of bets or make a mistake that costs you the pot, etc. When the pot is big and I think I have the best hand I hit the raise button until A) someone convinces me they have a better hand. B) The raise button is no longer available.
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#10
10-27-2005, 08:01 AM
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Re: Wait for the turn to raise?
I actually read a PM by Crunchy after bumping this thread which has clarified my thoughts on this hand, so please feel free to ignore this post.
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