2/5 Live Deepstacked Trips

[jsnipes28]

Some background info on this game: I am home from school and heard that there was a 2/5 game running in town, not a legit casino or anything. So i went last week and the players were just throwing money away. I won 700 in about 4 hours. Last night i went and played again and was winning a lot. The players there are calling stations and have no concept of odds, aren't thinking et cetera. They are, however, gamblers. Villain in this hand had called a 400 dollar preflop all in with 45s and made a straight and had also called a 50 preflop raise with 46o and cracked someone's AA. Villain regularly plays 7card-stud (according to him and his friends) and shoots dice for thousands of dollars. They are black guys, not that that has anything to do with it, who are pool hustlers, basketball hustlers, or just gamblers and had been talking about how they were either + or - like 2K for the day. I had been up to like 1700 at one point but i intentionally gave bakc like 150-200 because table percieved me as being very tight and "kneeling on my stack". This post is kind of long but i want to include a hand that i played with each villain so you can get an idea of what play was like.
Hand 1 is 9Handed
Hero is UTG with the KILL button (basically a free live straddle) and is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
5 callers for 20 each. I make it 125 to go. Villain2 calls and Villain1 calls.
Flop:5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero open-pushes 585. Villain2 thinks for a while and calls w/ 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain 1 folds and then shows 77 so Villain is on a gutshot. Turn and River brick and Hero takes down monstrous pot.

Hand2 is 5 Handed
Hero is CO w/ 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and calls 5.
4 see a flop of K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villain1 bets 25, Hero raises to 75, Villain1 calls 50.
Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain1 checks, Hero bets 125, Villain1 calls.
River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain1 checks, Hero checks.
Villain1 shows J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and takes down the pot.

Now to the hand in question. 5 Handed
Hero~1400
Villain1~950
Villain2~1000 (he rebought for a 1000 and is stuck about a grand for the night)
Hero is CO w/9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raises to 15
Villain 2 is button and calls
Villain 1 calls from BB
Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villain 1 bets 50, Hero calls 50, Villain2 calls 50.
Turn:K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villain1 bets 200, Hero calls 200, Villain2 folds.
River: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villain1 bets all in 500, Hero??

I don't like how I played this hand but i am not sure how to play it differently because raising the flop for info might not help as illustrated when he called down with mid pair. How should i have played this hand differently? Sorry for this being so long.

[jsnipes28]

bump. i cant stop thinking about this hand so someone think with me :0

[swarm]

I don't see you getting away from this hand so push the turn, these guys have displayed they will call down with any piece of the board.

As played on the river i'm calling with the game as described. Your splitting with any 8 other than A8 or K8 or 83 which in this game could be there. Any Ax hand could make this move trying to represent an 8 thinking that they are at least splitting with the K kicker hitting the board.

[Snupoker]

Let's think this through. Villain 1 is BB and his range for calling your raise is essentially any 2. He's shown the willingness to bet and call raises with weak holdings. We can also safely assume he is a "gambler" and not a thinking player as per your earlier references.

After he leads for the pot on the flop his likely holdings are Ax or maybe 2 diamonds in your opinion. You'll give him a 8 a very small percentage of the time as "gamblers" almost always like to be greedy and check-raise this spot if they have the 8. He bets the pot and is called in two spots. Now a thinking player would probably shut it down in this spot after getting called by both you and villain 2.

However on the turn a K hits and his Ax is no longer Ax, but rather AAK88. Now that his kicker doesnt matter, he bets the pot again as he was shown no resistance on the flop. When you call again this would put serious warning lights on in Villain 1's head. Villain 2 folds so the pot is at 600 when the river blank comes. The hands Villain beats you with when he pushes the river in order from likeliest to least likely: 83, 8K, 8A, 33, KK, AA. Villains range that you beat Ax, Kxdiamonds bluff, naked bluff. You push with any other 8x from villain. I'd say you lose this about 10-15%, push about 5% and win the rest.

Given the context of the game you are in I cant imagine any way to fold this hand unless you have a serious read on villain 1.

[jsnipes28]

I talked myself into a call, he slammed K8 against the felt and immediately went outside to smoke a blunt.
I still feel though that getting 2:1 i am good here far better than 30% of the time. I am not sure how i could have reasonably gotten away from it because even if i raise the flop and he pushes i think i have to call. Ditto on turn. Thanks for the feedback.

[Greeksquared]

I think the point you were trying to make through your entire post was that the villains would like to gamble alot and just make big calls.

Just for arguments sake...being slightly results oriented...

How did the villain play his 64o when he cracked the other guys aces. If you had not seen the villain bet big or raise then his turn and river bets should panic you. You perhaps could have just folded here and waited for villain to make a big call again like he did with your aces.

Another thing you might want to consider is the fact that if you go broke or (severely cripppled) and cant rebuy then you will have no chance at stacking villain later. You could pass on this situation in favor of getting a cinch hand against the villain later.

[jsnipes28]

The guy with Aces open-pushed the flop so he just called the bet. I saw him overbet the river like 150 into 50 pot with jack high or something earlier.

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing you might want to consider is the fact that if you go broke or (severely cripppled) and cant rebuy then you will have no chance at stacking villain later. You could pass on this situation in favor of getting a cinch hand against the villain later.

[/ QUOTE ]
Although i hate the pick a better spot mantra i think it certainly applies here. I save 500, still have like 950 behind and can play a number of pots where he will just barely have me covered for the rest of the night where i can play with less vulnerable hands.