Another "did I play this right?" thread

[grandgnu]

Empire $1,500 guaranteed
$5 tournament
282 players (top 30 get paid)
Avg stack about 6000 chips at this point (47 players remain)

No Limit Texas Hold 'Em
Blinds at 100/200

Here is in SB with

2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Total number of players : 9

Seat 2: LargeStackedLimper(14682)


Seat 7: Hero (small blind) (2595)
Seat 8: Villian (big blind) (2929)

Hero posts small blind (100)
Villian posts big blind (200)

Dealt to Hero [ 4d, 2d ]

LargeStackedLimper calls (200)

Hero calls (100)
Villian (BB)checks.

** Dealing Flop ** : [ A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
Hero bets (2395)

Villian raises (2729) to 2729

LargeStackedLimper folds.

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]


Main Pot: 5390 | Side Pot 1: 334
Board: [ A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]

Hero balance 0, lost 2595 [ 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ two pairs, fours and twos -- Ad,4d,4h,2d,2s ]

Villian balance 5724, bet 2929, collected 5724, net +2795 [ A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ a straight, ace to five -- As,5d,4h,3c,2s ]

So that's it, I'm out in 47th place. I don't think I'm unhappy with my opponents call, I was 62% to 38% on the flop, 72% to 28% on the turn, and he caught one of his nine outs. I was hoping that someone with an Ace and no second pair would call, but I just got unlucky.

The question is: Was my opponents call correct in this situation? I'm not sure, I may have made the call myself, with top pair and the inside straight draw, given that he was short-stacked compared to an average stack at that point. Thoughts?

[cyberer]

If I understood this post correctly then you went all in off the flop with your 2 pair. This play is potentially bad for a number of reasons:
1. If no one has a hand, then the odds of you making money on this pot are very slim.
2. There was a straight possibility off the flop, and since everyone at the table limped in, its perfectly possible that you are facing the 3-5 off suit making the straight.

That being said, you made the right read on your opponents that no one made the straight, you just got beaten by a bad draw. In the long run this play would make you some money, you hit some bad luck. This has been happenning to me a lot lately (see my post "Luck Luck Luck" in the holdem forum), but theres not much you can do. I'd caution the 2 pair all in for the reasons listed above.

[BlackAces]

It's an iffy call, but I could see someone making it. Your bet is telling people that you either have a draw or a vulnerable hand. You could have a medium pair, or a pair with a straight draw, and are just hoping people will go away. It's not unreasonable for A5 to think he's best, or have several outs if he's not. About the only other hand that gives him problems is ace-medium.

To sum up, I think your bet confused him into making an incorrect read, but he made the right move based on that read.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
If I understood this post correctly then you went all in off the flop with your 2 pair. This play is potentially bad for a number of reasons:
1. If no one has a hand, then the odds of you making money on this pot are very slim.
2. There was a straight possibility off the flop, and since everyone at the table limped in, its perfectly possible that you are facing the 3-5 off suit making the straight.

That being said, you made the right read on your opponents that no one made the straight, you just got beaten by a bad draw. In the long run this play would make you some money, you hit some bad luck. This has been happenning to me a lot lately (see my post "Luck Luck Luck" in the holdem forum), but theres not much you can do. I'd caution the 2 pair all in for the reasons listed above.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a monster stack who limped, but I don't put him limping with 3/5 offsuit given what I've seen of him.

While it's possible that my opponent in the BB holds the 3/5 offsuit, again, the odds are against this, given all the possible hand combinations.

I figure to be ahead of both players in this situation, given there is only a large stacked limper and a big blind in the hand with me.

And if one of them does have an Ace, it's unlikely he's hit two pair since I hold two of the cards already out. I didn't have an opportunity to "read" any of my opponents, since I was first to act in the small blind. I just saw that I flopped two pair, there's 650-700 or so in the pot, which would be a nice addition to my stack, and if I get called I'm likely ahead and have an opportunity to double up, since I'll need about 9K to be an "average" stack when we make the money, and I'm sitting on under 3K at this point.

[Lloyd]

The flop bet is not good. There is 600 in the pot and you're betting 2395. It just doesn't make sense. You can either make a bet of around 2/3 the pot and hope to get raised by Ax (at which point you'll push) or check and hope that Ax bets and then you can push. By leading out with a push you have pretty much driven Ax out of the hand as I don't think they can call such a large bet.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet is not good. There is 600 in the pot and you're betting 2395. It just doesn't make sense. You can either make a bet of around 2/3 the pot and hope to get raised by Ax (at which point you'll push) or check and hope that Ax bets and then you can push. By leading out with a push you have pretty much driven Ax out of the hand as I don't think they can call such a large bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You assume that my opponents are thinking opponents though. My push DID receive a call from Ax, just as I wanted. He just happened to catch his gutshot on the river.

You are correct though, I should have bet out 400, hoping to get popped back at, and then pushed.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
You assume that my opponents are thinking opponents though. My push DID receive a call from Ax, just as I wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]
Basing the validity of your push and the resulting call on this one play is results oriented. More often than not, Ax will not call that push. Perhaps something like AK or AQ but not the smaller suited aces.