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  #1  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:06 PM
A_PLUS A_PLUS is offline
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Default and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

A friend asked me for a line from this hand in a live 18-man tournament we played.

Hero BB (2000)
SB (650) solid player so far
MP (1000) blah passive player
LP (1500) bad player

15-30 Blinds

Hero Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

MP calls, LP calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop (120) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB leads for 100......

I think this is an interesting hand, b/c we have a lot of factors to consider. Namely, do we want to play this to maximize our folding equity? Get as many callers as possible? We have a lot of options.

I will post my line when I see what you guys and gals think.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

I think I call here. If one of the bigger stacks raises and shorty folds, you can push over that, and if one/both of them call, you're in great shape. The only annoying situations is if shorty gets it all in behind you. Seeing a turn with just the SB isn't that bad either.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

Maximize folding equity? Why on earth would hero want anyone to fold here? Hero wants everyone calling all the way around on every street here. There are so many cards that help hero's hand that I'd be willing to play for my whole stack in this spot.

I'm calling the 100 hoping that it gets overcalls behind me here. I want this pot to get big but I think there's more value in calling than raising here. If there is no raise behind me here I'll look to get one in on the turn. Nobody behind me has a stack that threatens me so I'm willing to play back at a raise behind me on this flop. If there's a raise from a player left to act behind me I'm 3-betting all in on the flop. With 15 outs, many of them giving me the absolute nuts, I'm fine with playing for anyone's whole stack here and I know I can't bust on this hand.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:35 PM
LearnedfromTV LearnedfromTV is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
Maximize folding equity? Why on earth would hero want anyone to fold here? Hero wants everyone calling all the way around on every street here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want everyone calling the flop. Whether you want them to call on the turn and river depends on what happens. It's easy to say get it allin on the flop. What if they don't let you? Also, 15 outs twice is only a slight favorite against an A. Once the pot builds, you want the A to fold, even though you have greater equity.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:36 PM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

I would call and pray someone raises behind me. I don't like raising now because we allow people behind us to just play perfect poker. They will call with 2 pr or better and fold worse hands.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:42 PM
LearnedfromTV LearnedfromTV is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
I would call and pray someone raises behind me. I don't like raising now because we allow people behind us to just play perfect poker. They will call with 2 pr or better and fold worse hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Raising the flop just discourages weaker hands from coming (A jack, weaker draws) and puts you in the position of being the caller of an allin behind you. Not bad, nothing *bad* can happen on the flop action, but you'd rather get a raise from behind you, a call from the SB and then push over the top.

If no one raises behind you, the pot is manageable on the turn. With the right read you can semibluff push when you miss.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

BTW, a very important aspect of playing these hands is to put in the last bet. I think a big reason why this is a call and not a raise is because of how awkward the raise amount is. You could overbet push the shorty all in, but that makes things really awkard if either of the other stacks comes in. If they weren't here or if they had stacks like the shorty, I think this would be a push.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:16 PM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

I like the responses so far....interesting hand....next street please.

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2005, 09:07 PM
schwza schwza is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
MP (1000) blah passive player
LP (1500) bad player

[/ QUOTE ]

you really think either of these guys is folding a3?

[ QUOTE ]


They will call with 2 pr or better and fold worse hands.



[/ QUOTE ]
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2005, 10:43 PM
SossMan SossMan is offline
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Default Re: and in this corner.....weighing 265 pounds..Folding Equity!!!!!

I think this is definitely a calling situation. You can reassess how to get the chips in later as the hand develops. If all fold, I'm getting the rest in on the turn.
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