Excellent Advice. Just One Thing . . .

[Peter666]

"I have many friends who grew up in working class families who are now happily ensconced in the upper-middle class due to their Ivy League educations. It is, I think, obvious that the single most important factor in raising Bill Clinton's social status was graduating from Yale"

What a bunch of losers.

It is better to be young and single and get blown by skinny pretty girls than to be an old adulterer and get blown by fat ugly ones like Monica Lewinsky. That, and the fact that the chances of all these "successful" people suffering in Eternal Hell is very great.

PokerCat,

You are smart enough to do whatever the hell you want. If somebody seriously needs to be TOLD on how to manage their life outside of gambling, then things have already failed. You are not one of them. Go forth and prosper.

[LittleOldLady]

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It is better to be young and single and get blown by skinny pretty girls than to be an old adulterer and get blown by fat ugly ones like Monica Lewinsky. That, and the fact that the chances of all these "successful" people suffering in Eternal Hell is very great.



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Peter666, good luck on staying young and getting blown by pretty skinny girls (since when is skinny pretty, but I digress). With your attitude, in a few years you will be lucky to get blown by anyone you didn't pay.

My point was that 8-tabling in your underpants is a young man's game. Now, you may think that it is better to be young, but the fact of the matter is that the only way to avoid getting older is to die prematurely. Like it or not, you will age, and if you are wise, you will plan your life to cover the entire life cycle. That is where having a good education is indispensable.

I doubt if Bill Clinton is shaking in his boots about the prospect of being consigned to an Eternal Hell which is highly unlikely to exist. If Eternal Hell is the place for old adulterers who get blown by fat, ugly women, Bill will have lots of company....

[Peter666]

"If Eternal Hell is the place for old adulterers who get blown by fat, ugly women, Bill will have lots of company...."

a better alternative is to:

"die prematurely"

My point is that much advice is given from the perspective of people who may hold completely different values, ideas and meanings of life. Unless two people share the same values, most advice is useless.

I learn poker to make money from the convenience of my own home. Stu Ungar played poker to feed his habits. If people want to judge him for it, it is their problem, not his. People can and will choose what they want. What we agree upon is to learn to play the best poker we can.

Also it is easy for people to give advice once they have lots of money or status. But I doubt it was very pleasurable for many of them to attain it. So while it is nice to get advice from well meaning people, they must realize that it will usually go unheeded no matter what. This makes it useless. The view from the trenches is much different from the view of the General.

[BillC]

I agree that playing poker full time is a young man's game (or for retirees). I have the freedom to play a lot of poker b/c of my flexible academic hours. But I don't. It is too tedious and boring. I do like poker but not full time. I like poker theory too. But compared with other activites, it doesn't compare. It doesn't contribute much to humanity, human knowledge, the general good, etc. It is not totally trivial but not really that deep either. It's a freakin' card game, not quantum mechanics.

If you are a really bright kid, why not just get an advanced degree that will pay a good and stable income. Just get an MBA, medical or law degree. If you want ot be a bum, just get a Ph.D. and play poker on the side. What is the big deal?

[Ed Miller]

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So while it is nice to get advice from well meaning people, they must realize that it will usually go unheeded no matter what. This makes it useless.

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Why is advice that will USUALLY go unheeded USELESS?

[Sniper]

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My point was that 8-tabling in your underpants is a young man's game.

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This is not necessarily true, depending on how you define "young". The initial gaming/computer literate generation is now in their 40's and fully skilled to 8-table. I'm also certain that there are many women who would disagree that its only a "man's" game.

[Python49]

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But compared with other activites, it doesn't compare. It doesn't contribute much to humanity, human knowledge, the general good, etc. It is not totally trivial but not really that deep either. It's a freakin' card game, not quantum mechanics.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree wholeheartedly. Poker has opened my eyes to a few things just about life in general. One of the main ones being that to really succeed at something you have to work hard and LEARN abuot what it is that makes other people who do it successful. 5 months ago I only had $50 to my name and found this website. I was the typical player that thought they were good or whatever but really did not know much at all. I then spent countless hours READING everything I could on this website and soaking up AS MUCH KNOWLEDGE as I could. I practiced my game, refined my skills, talked with other successful players and found out what it was that I was doing wrong to correct my play. This is the whole process of LEARNING... and it taught me that to really prosper in something you have to put in the time and be willing to learn, be humble enough to accept criticism from others, and to put to use the stuff you have learned. I feel this carries over with MOSTLY every thing else in life that people want to get good at. The time I spent researching, reading, practicing, all was a learning process and I feel like I am 30x more knowledgable about this than I was 5 months ago, and the growth in my bankroll has proven this to be true. Now how does this help in other aspects of life? Well think about it, anything that people become great at what do they do? They follow a similar process. If you want to be great at investing you have to fill your brain with as much knowledge as possible. Learn as much as you can about it and even talk to other people whom are successful at it just like in poker. You then have to learn on your own through trial and error, read books, etc. This is the same process by which people learn.

I can tell you first hand this is not the learning process that has gotten me through school on great academics.. and the average student in college is not "learning" either, they are just doing what they can to get by. Granted, some kids actually are smart enough to understand what it means to learn... alot of people getting those college degrees can get one and not be able to tell you diddly squat about what they learned in their courses. Ive always gotten great marks in school and never really truly felt like I learned a DAMNED thing. Im here on academic scholarship and barely study, all I do is study the night before exams and get the A, this is not true learning... this is just memorization of facts.

I feel like poker for me was a true learning process... and I feel like I could really teach alot because I understand the principles of the game and it is knowledge I have obtained. This same learning process like I said can be applied to plenty of stuff.. learning how to invest, play basketball, gain muscle mass through weight lifting, program computers, etc. I guess what i'm saying is that poker has taught me how to teach myself... i now am beginning to embark on a learning process relating to investing where I will put forth the same time investment in gaining knowledge that I did with poker, read books, read forums online, talk with other successful people in it, and make smart decisions along the way. I feel like ive learned now what kind of effort it really takes to learn something and have success at it. This was not something I feel is taught in college since they deem success based on a score on a test and there are many ways to achieve that high mark without actually learning it for yourself and sustaining the knowledge. I took english literature last semester.... got an A.. i don't remember a damned thing about the class, but if you asked me to explain certain principles in poker such as expected value, standard deviation, variance, bankroll management, I could probably write essays on the topics.

[Peter666]

Because those who truly need it, won't use it. And those who are smart enough to acknowledge its intelligence, are doing their own financial planning already, customized to suit them.

But it is interesting to talk about theoretically.

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I can tell you first hand this is not the learning process that has gotten me through school on great academics.. and the average student in college is not "learning" either, they are just doing what they can to get by. Granted, some kids actually are smart enough to understand what it means to learn... alot of people getting those college degrees can get one and not be able to tell you diddly squat about what they learned in their courses. Ive always gotten great marks in school and never really truly felt like I learned a DAMNED thing. Im here on academic scholarship and barely study, all I do is study the night before exams and get the A, this is not true learning... this is just memorization of facts.

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I agree. Education these days follow this... for want of a better word... philosophy of education: Inundate them with facts and hope something sticks long enough to take the finals so they can get their degree. And for what. A piece of paper (or parchment, or whatever) that says they can sit in class for and hour or two at a time and absorb information well enough to regurgitate a minimum of 70% of it back at test time.

That is not an education, that is indoctrination. An education will teach a person to critically think for themselves, not just to repeat what someone else thought sometime in the past, or their teachers or peers ideology. If people were truly educated anymore, this world would be in much better shape than it is.

But, that's a subject for another time.

If you feel the need to go to college, get a degree that is useful, not something that sounds fun that no one wants.

I have a friend whose daughter got a degree in foreign studies (or some such rot). She was thinking it would qualify her for a job in the UN or some other world organization. What she did not realize was in order to get those jobs, she had to have connections. She is now working in a restaurant waiting tables while going to hair dressing school. Another of our friends daughter did that first before going to college and is now making about 60-70k a year and it considering skipping college altogether.

I have somewhere around 200-300 college credits, mostly in engineering and computer science courses. Some earned through CLEP or other bypass methods, some from the Air Force, but most from actual class room. I have no degree, not one. I have been employed with the same company since 1986 and earn a 6 figure income. I am comfortable with my position, I like my job (engineering, by the way, without a degree). I always started school (usually while I was working in a job that required the degree or equivalent I was working towards) with the intention of getting the "credential", but usually ran out of patience with professors who wanted to "teach" ideology instead of whatever they were being paid to teach. Or tenured professors who couldn't teach a grade school subject, much less a college course. And on and on.

All that to say this. Some folks do well in college, some don't. Some will do well playing poker for a living, some won't. Some will teach, some will work at the trades. Some will be doctors and lawyers, and some will dig ditches.

There is no one true path to sucess, including college. College is not the panacea everyone claims it is, it is only one of many paths.

As someone in an earlier post said when asked about advice being useless:

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Because those who truly need it (advice), won't use it. And those who are smart enough to acknowledge its intelligence, are doing their own financial planning already, customized to suit them.

But it is interesting to talk about theoretically.

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I am 50 years old and looking at retirement. Poker just may (and may not) turn out to be a decent retirement supplement. If not, it will provide an old man with many hours of enjoyment.

My advice is to read all this various advice everyone is giving and use it to make up your own mind. Use it to help you know what is in your own heart and then your path will be clearer.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, just want to say what a great resource this site is. I can't find the words to express my gratitude to the folks who keep giving great advice for us who strive to play better poker.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

[The Legend]

I love this thread. I too feel the emptiness and worthlessness that my college educational experience taught me. I graduated last spring with an EE degree. The truth is I don't know why I even got the damn degree. I got a job now which is full of the previously discussed guys who have been working this crap for twenty to thirty years. If I end up like that, it would be horrible. I believe the reason I stayed and got my degree was because I found no outs, no other way to make good money other then getting the degree. However, I figured someday I'd think of some great idea and start my own business and what not, so it became sort of a backup plan. Poker more or less is slowly becoming that business idea for me now.

However, I must say that looking back, I am glad I went to college and got my degree for all the non-classroom related issues. Most importantly, I've learned a lot about people. Just witnessing them in the classroom, living with a few of them, seeing the common attitudes and concerns of college students, lets you see the world in a new light.

As I previously said, its nice to have a backup plan as well. College really wasn't tough or anything, it was an easy four years. I've learned so much about people and life through those years. I'm not sure if its because of college or my own unique experiences, but I don't regret it.

I guess in the end, if you find absolutely no value out of college, don't do it. I found bare minimum, and had I discovered poker when I was a freshman or sophomore as opposed to halfway through my senior year, I may have dropped out.

Overall, I guess my point is that there is more value to college than the supposed value of education that you get from class(from which I got none), so I'd recommend staying in.