First 2 days of online play

[Aviston]

First, a bit about me. I, fortunately or unfortunately, hail from the state of Michigan where everyone plays cards and almost everyone plays cards badly. A few months ago I introduced a couple of friends to the game of low blinds, No Limit Hold 'Em (I had been playing it off and on for fun for the past few years). Suddenly, it seemed like everyone I knew either played HE or knew an HE player, and I found myself able to play in multiple home games a week. Right from the start it seemed like I was better than 99% of the people I was playing with. This isn't an ego-rant in any way; I'm definitely aware that beating a home game doesn't make you a good poker player. In the last 3 months, I've managed to walk away losing money only twice. Considering my results, I decided a few weeks ago that perhaps I might take this a bit more seriously.

So off I went to the bookstore to invest some money. I scoured the net as a forum leech soaking up what I could. I subscribed fully to the 300 BB theory of a bankroll and began building it from my home poker winnings. Since I live 2 hours from the nearest casino, I figured the only place I could really put in solid hours was online. After a couple of weeks, I had made about $340 in home poker winnings. I decided to keep $100 to continue playing home poker with. I have never really spent my own money to play poker; my original buy in a few months ago was with spare change around the house (and I'm still playing on the winnings). Anyway, this left me with $240 to hand to ultimatebet.com where I could begin my online poker career.

I had to wait the weekend until my account was fully operational, so I took the time to play as much as possible with the 'play chips' to get used to the interface. I also spent quite a bit of time deciding which style of Hold 'Em I should play. My small bankroll didn't look to be enough to play my typical .25/.50 blind No Limit, so I decided to compromise: I'd play NL small entry fee tournaments and take a stab at playing micro-limit ring games. Unfortunately, the scary thing for me was that I had never, ever, ever played a limit game of Hold 'Em. I figured I was in for a world of hurt. My bankroll didn't quite support the .50/1 game, so I decided to play .25/.50 which would give me some much needed leeway (an extra $90 over the 300 BB's).

So here we go, my account finally became fully live yesterday (Monday) and I jumped into the game with both feet. The first hour I played felt like it might be the best hour I'll ever get playing limit Hold 'Em. Although I played pretty decently (I think), I have to admit that the cards were just falling my way. I had pocket aces twice, along with kings, queens, and jacks once a piece. The game was really passive preflop which allowed me to check in from the BB numerous times with rags. On 3 occasions, the flop clobbered me with two pair and I was able to take down sizeable pots. At the end of the hour, I was 20 BB's up. All good things must come to an end, however, and they sure did on the second hour of play. I didn't get many good starting hands, and I definitely made a few playing errors that cost me some bets. I decided to call it a day after the second hour while I was 13 BB's to the sky.

So, now we move on to today. I woke up, grabbed some coffee and decided it was time to continue my poker trek. If the first hour of play yesterday was everything I had ever hoped for, the opposite could be said for the first hour today. Let's just say that I got absolutely owned. In the first 50 or 60 hands I didn't win a single pot. I folded preflop just about every hand with a myriad of rotten cards. I limped in with small pocket pairs in late position 3 times and caught my set on the flop everytime. Unfortunately, I managed to lose every single pot even armed with my trips. It was horrible; I'm sure I'll have nightmares about it for weeks to come. I took a break and found that I had lost 26 BB's in a single hour, which meant that I was now 13 BB's down. After lunch, I sucked it up, and played for another hour. Although I didn't win any BB's by the end of the hour, I didn't lose any either. I ended the hour exactly in the same spot as I had began it: 13 BB's down. So that's where I'm at now, it's been quite a learning experience already, and I'm looking forward to the rest of my online career.

Here's a quick hand that happened during the second hour of play today. It didn't feel right the way I played it, and so I humbly ask you guys to show me the light and give me some tips on how to play it better:

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

I played this marginal hand with the intention of either a) flopping two pair or a flush draw, or b) folding after the flop. I won't play this generally if an ace flops and there is any action as I figure to be outkicked most of the time. I admit I was baffled as to what MP2 had in his hand when he raised me on the flop. He was new to the table so I had no idea of what type of player he was. I couldn't figure him for an overpair since he didn't raise preflop. He could of limped in with a small pocket pair (including an 8 or 6, giving him the set). He could've had overcards, such as K-J or Q-J. I didn't think he'd have middle pair, since I couldn't imagine him raising the flop with such a hand. Anyway, since I was overly confused, I merely decided to check-call all the way to the river. I played this extremely passively, I know, but it seemed like a good plan at the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[LeftBack]

Welcome to the Forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Slow down, take it easy on that bankroll.

How do you find Ultimate Bet to be? Seems like a tough starting venue. There might be softer games out there to consider. Can you say Party Poker?

As a means to that end, get a Neteller account, and try a few different sites. Poker Stars also has .25/.50 and Paradise offers .05/.10. Take advantage of a few sign-up bonuses while you're at it.

You should plan on spending a big share of your time reading this forum (especially the archives), and pick up a couple of the books that people refer to. Yes, you can use your bankroll for the books. It will pay.

Get the Poker Tracker demo.

I'm not the greatest hand analyzer, but I think an important question that's often overlooked is:

What hand(s) did you figure MP2 could be playing? Lots of people jump to the obvious hands, but they forgot about the other hands that don't necessarily mean doom.

My guess comes from:

http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/st...lop-abdul.html

Abdul puts MP2 at 55/T9s/QJ. That's probably giving him a lot of credit. Re-raising the flop is playing pretty fast, so he most likely had some kind of made hand. High cards would have faded fast, so I'm guessing a pair. With that many hits in the middle pair range, I would be worried about a set.

Good Luck.

[lil']

I played this marginal hand with the intention of either a) flopping two pair or a flush draw, or b) folding after the flop. I won't play this generally if an ace flops and there is any action as I figure to be outkicked most of the time. I admit I was baffled as to what MP2 had in his hand when he raised me on the flop.

Flopping top pair with A-10 and folding on the flop is way too tight if there was no raising pre-flop.

As for your opponent's raise, it could be a lot of things, but most of them are not as good as what you have. You are likely ahead here and should 3 bet.

Good luck with the whole on-line poker thing.

[HajiShirazu]

UB is pretty tough for someone just starting out. That's not such a bad thing though.
ATs is hardly a marginal holding, this is a limit game, not NL. In fact consider raising preflop at tables that are less than tough such as what this one probably was. ATs is a strong hand-always play it if the pot has not yet been raised, and expect to have the best hand on an ace or ten high flop just about all of the time.
Definately 3-bet this flop, you will usually have the best hand here.

[Zetack]

Hey welcome to our world. Hope you have a blast.

The hand you posted is a tricky little hand. There aren't a whole lot of rational hands for the guy to raise with on the flop that you beat. Having said that this isn't a level where people are very rational.

I'm slow to put people on sets, they just aren't common enough. So fine, if somebody hits a set they can take some money out of me. I'd be most worried about an overpair. You'll find a lot of players won't raise preflop with jacks or even queens. But most likely this guy has some kind of ten and if he does you have him crushed. Or he may be makeing some kind of play at you. So I like a three bet on the flop.

However the way you played it isn't bad, if you have him beat you probably get the most out of him while losing the least if he has you beat.

Figure it this way, suppose he has, I dunno, A-8. If you three bet the flop and he calls and you lead the turn, there's some chance he'll pack it in. But by just calling and then check calling the rest of the way now you've given him the opportunity to bet at you on every street.

Suppose on the other hand he has a set. You three bet and he either caps it here or just calls and C/R's you on the turn. And your TpTK is hard to get away from.

But I still like three betting the flop.
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

--Zetack

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
and expect to have the best hand on an ace or ten high flop just about all of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well lets not go nuts now. That's putting it pretty strongly. With an ace high flop I'd be cautiously optimistic that its the best hand. But, aces with a ten kicker is a hand that I think should be backed off pretty quickly when you run into much resistance.

--Zetack

[Aviston]

Thanks for the replies. I was under the impression that 3 betting the flop was the stronger play; however, as I said, I just couldn't put him on anything with his raise and therefore got a bit frazzled. As for the results of the hand:

River: (6.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Results below:
Hero shows Tc Ac (two pair, tens and eights).
MP2 shows 9c Ks (two pair, nines and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.20 BB.

As you can see, he apparently raised me on the flop with a gutshot straight draw. Ah well, rationality is not at its highest level on the low limit HE tables.

It is true that UB is probably not the best place for me to win. However, I don't mind at all losing money as long as I'm improving my play. UB seems to have better players than a lot of places and so that's where I chose to play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

I played a bit more tonight, and had more dismal results. I think my biggest leak is that I'm a bit too aggressive when I have a piece of the action. Although I stick to what would be considered good starting hands at the low limit level, I find that I have a tough time getting away from them when I flop things such as TPTK. In short, I'm losing more on the hands I lose than I am winning on those I win. Ah well, I need to beat the NL out of me while playing limit.

[Aviston]

Well, as far as I consider it, A-10 might be one of my top marginal hands, but it's still marginal. I wouldn't just fold it because someone bets when an A falls on the flop, but I'd be willing to throw it away if any more action is evident. I guess I'd like to think that hands such as AA, AK, and AQ will generate preflop action (although, I'm certainly living in a fantasy world) so I consider my main worry A-J in such a situation.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I'll have nightmares about it for weeks to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't. It always sucks to not be able to consistently drag pots but it's a routine dry spell that happens to everyone.

Recently, I dropped 90 BBs in 3,000 hands and didn't get back to even for another 2,500. It sounds like you're playing a few hundred hands a day, so a streak like this would really screw with your nightmares if you're not prepared for it [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[SoCalPat]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I don't mind at all losing money as long as I'm improving my play. UB seems to have better players than a lot of places and so that's where I chose to play

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to get over yourself. Quickly. Please tell me you're not serious about this comment.

The goal in this game is to win money. Period, end of discussion. If you're playing for any other reason, you should just quit, or better yet, write us all a check.

Why you would want to play against better players to satisfy some belief (and a false one at that) when you can hammer the fish that are just as numerous in the poker world as there is in the aquatic world.

I'm not interested in being able to hang at a table with 8 tight-aggressive players. In fact, that's the last table I would want to be at. And anyone who seeks such tables should have their heads checked.