Mediocre hands from the blinds

[ononimo]

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meh. you're ahead of too many hands here. maybe i'll do the math later and see which wins the pot more often.

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fwiw, i'm not saying the stop-and-go is the definitive play - i said the choice is between a push and stop-and-go. if one had reads (which we do not in this case) in certain situations regarding whether someone could or couldn't let go of overcards on a missed flop, i think one could make a very good case for the S&G over a push.

if TT is too big of a hand to do a S&G, how small of a pocket pair would make a S&G acceptable?

[Proofrock]

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stop and go is terrible here. there are exactly 0 hands that have you beat preflop that will fold on any flop. I mean, what's the point? If you're going to push any flop anyway, might as well get all-in now as a favorite.


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with that logic, when if ever, would you advocate using a stop-and-go?

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I use the stop-and-go when I am in the blind, have a short stack that leaves me with between a 1/2 and full pot bet if I call, my hand is too good to fold given the pot odds and Villain's preflop range, Villain is committed to call my all-in and I also expect my hand to be no better than a coinflip. So I may SnG with lower pairs (<66), weak aces, broadway cards.

The difference between these hands and 1010 is that 1010 is only behind 4 other hands, Villain's preflop raising range is significantly wider than these 4 hands, and 1010 is a big favorite against lower pairs that would likely call a preflop push. Though pot odds won't let me get away from the other hands, with 1010 i figure to be ahead of Villain's range and am happy to push that edge.

Would you SnG with JJ or QQ? why or why not?

My argument against an SnG here is that it is more +EV to push preflop. The hand you're really targeting here is a two overcard hand, since we can assume JJ-AA will call your open push.

So let's say Villain is on two overcards. Roughly (1/3) of the time Villain hits, you push and he calls and wins ~92% of time. (2/3) of the time he misses and should fold because he's not getting the right odds to call. You don't know which two he is on, so you're pushing any flop (sng).

So, assume Villain plays optimally. Then on average your resulting stack size will be
(1/3)*(0.92)*0+(1/3)*(0.08)*(t28500) + (2/3)*(t22500) = t15760.

Now, let's say you push preflop. Against two overcards you are a 56% favorite.
0.56*t28500 +0.44*0 = t15960.

You're better off pushing preflop (this is simplified, of course, but at the very least it's very close). you can ignore higher pairs because we assume they'll call either way. this leaves us with lower pairs -- they will often times call preflop, but will occasionally fold to the flop push, and you'd really rather have them along.

[davidross]

I folded the AT without really thinking much about it.I really putthat inthere to see if I'm way tighter than most, and to see if anyone calls here to see if the flop is any help, but of course if the A falls, now what. If I think my A is good I should be pushing here pre-flop shouldn't I?

I pushed with TT and I'm glad to see most would do the same. I wondered if the stop and go would be the play. I prefer to try and survive with hands like this, had he been in later position i would have pushed right away, but I had a bad feeling about him upping his raise, felt like JJ or QQ and it was QQ. THe flop came AKK and I wonder if I might have survived if I had just called.

Players were going out at a real fast rate at this stage, and I'm still 170 away from any serious money though, and I could wait a long time for a hand better than TT.