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#21
11-15-2005, 05:27 PM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
Some results...
Button raised to 15, I raise to 45 with KK, he reraise, I check-raise all-in on the flop, he folds and claims JJ. Donk raises to 8, I called with KK, semi-short SB reraised, donk reraised, I pushed, SB thinks a while and calls with QQ (for the record, I wanted to play for his stack with KK... don't remember why anymore, but I felt very good against him. It was the donk I was concerned with). Donk calls with AA. Board QJTxx. UTG limps, I raise AKo on button, SB calls, UTG calls, flop 655 two diamonds, both call me, turn king I push and they both fold. I raise a couple limpers with AA in BB, two calls, I bet a low flop, one call, I bet the rest of his stack on the turn and he calls with a set of fours. 
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#22
11-15-2005, 05:34 PM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
[ QUOTE ]
Finding out where I'm at when I'm all-in has no value. [/ QUOTE ] touche. hand one I don't know why you wouldn't just check/call. I don't think it's likely that the turn will develop into a best hand for villain. Villain is a similar type, raise or fold tho obviously not as solid: Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx MP ($27.74) CO ($27.20) Button ($13.49) Hero ($25) BB ($50.30) UTG ($32.25) Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10. [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]CO raises to $0.65</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero (poster) raises to $1.9</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, CO calls $1.35. Flop: ($4.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font> [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $4</font>, [color=#CC3333]CO raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $4. Turn: ($20.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font> Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]CO bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15 (All-In). River: ($50.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font> Final Pot: $50.25 Villain shows Q10o
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#24
11-15-2005, 07:12 PM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
Without surrounding details you cannot make any sort of comparisons. If I think my opponent will call with worse hands then it doesn't fall under the scope of this thread and I don't post it.
For example, had the donk not held AA in that particular hand, I would have gladly gotten all-in against the third player and not posted it here, because I felt that KK was ahead of the range he'd call all-in with.
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#25
11-15-2005, 08:11 PM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
[ QUOTE ]
Without surrounding details you cannot make any sort of comparisons. If I think my opponent will call with worse hands then it doesn't fall under the scope of this thread and I don't post it. For example, had the donk not held AA in that particular hand, I would have gladly gotten all-in against the third player and not posted it here, because I felt that KK was ahead of the range he'd call all-in with. [/ QUOTE ] Im referring to your 1st KK vs JJ hand where you pushed the turn and he cliamed to have folded JJ. Youre questioning whether pushing is correct because he will fold worse hands and call with better hands. Im saying that people call with worse hands all the time so your all in is correct.
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#26
11-15-2005, 08:30 PM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
Since you don't know who my opponent was, how can you claim that he will call with worse hands?
As I said earlier in the thread, if you disagree with my read of what range of hands will call me in any given hand, then what would you do if you had QQ or JJ instead of KK? I am asking a theory question and nitpicking the examples accomplishes nothing.
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#27
11-16-2005, 02:58 AM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
Why you making things so difficult? I know the game is full of excellent complexities but this post seems to be creating ones that shouldn't be.
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#29
11-16-2005, 08:57 AM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
[ QUOTE ]
If he has QQ, JJ, or AK then I win about $200 on this hand. If he has AA or TT, I lose $400. [/ QUOTE ] Most players will call with QQ/JJ here oh and dont forget A10 and 99... [ QUOTE ] If I just call the $65 I give two people the chance to outflop me, if I reraise it's hard to get action unless I'm behind, so I either win $100 or lose $400. [/ QUOTE ] This is more like it. I dont know what to do but the spot is definitely not easy. [ QUOTE ] When the turn bricks, I either risk giving a free card to a draw, or I make a bet that will only get called by hands that crush me. [/ QUOTE ] Giving a freecard is not that bad if you bet enough on the flop and your opponents are willing to bluff if they dont fill up. My experience tell me that its not the problem though if I have AK on Kxx flop I bet 3 times and observe KQ, KJ, K10 , QQ, JJ calling me down. I see the point of this post. I have the same problem with mediocre hands (like KJ on Kxx 2tone board) this is where pot control came in handy. Yours is about big hands though I think the solution is to bluff more if you really dont get calls from medium hands in these situations... Best wishes
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#30
11-16-2005, 09:00 AM
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Re: Worse hands will fold, better hands will call....
[ QUOTE ]
For every hand like your KK where your push made him fold JJ, I can show you a hand where I pushed with QJ on a KT92 board and K4 called me. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah Iceman. Other examples from last week of my play are : push with AA on Kxx , called by KQ, push with A10 on A10x called by AQ, push with 33 (10xpot overbet) on 1073 no flush called by 89off ! push with QJ on QJx (3xpot overbet) called by AQ etc etc. I think you just need aggressive image [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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