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  #21  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

I continually hear the "playing is not illegal" arguement that is supposed to make us all feel better about playing. The truth of the matter is that if it is not illegal to play the game then the game is not illegal. Read that again to make sure you read it right. It sounds simple and it is but so many people don't get it (including the police - if the police continue to set an example but not arresting players then THEY are saying that the game is NOT illegal) Then hosting the game is not illegal. It is not illegal to host a legal activity. People seem to want to say this over and over that only the owners/operaters are breaking the law but that is similiar to saying only drug dealers are breaking the law. GAMBLING is illegal. The biggest point to get across to people is that POKER IS NOT GAMBLING, it is a game of skill just as bridge and other games have been determined to be games of skill in NYC and as poker has been deemed in other parts of the country and so owning a club is not illegal. The clubs have no interest in who wins - no extra value if you bet a billion dollars or 20 cents...the point of the club is to provide a safe place to play where a common set of rules is followed to avoid conflicts...
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:57 AM
turnipmonster turnipmonster is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

isn't it illegal to profit from hosting the games though? that's always been my layman's understanding of it.
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:58 AM
The Armchair The Armchair is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
I continually hear the "playing is not illegal" arguement that is supposed to make us all feel better about playing. The truth of the matter is that if it is not illegal to play the game then the game is not illegal. Read that again to make sure you read it right. It sounds simple and it is but so many people don't get it (including the police - if the police continue to set an example but not arresting players then THEY are saying that the game is NOT illegal) Then hosting the game is not illegal. It is not illegal to host a legal activity. People seem to want to say this over and over that only the owners/operaters are breaking the law but that is similiar to saying only drug dealers are breaking the law. GAMBLING is illegal. The biggest point to get across to people is that POKER IS NOT GAMBLING, it is a game of skill just as bridge and other games have been determined to be games of skill in NYC and as poker has been deemed in other parts of the country and so owning a club is not illegal. The clubs have no interest in who wins - no extra value if you bet a billion dollars or 20 cents...the point of the club is to provide a safe place to play where a common set of rules is followed to avoid conflicts...

[/ QUOTE ]


This is so wrong for so many reasons. Do call a lawyer.
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2005, 11:00 AM
BottlesOf BottlesOf is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

Yes, despite the fact that it may not make logical sense, or correspond with our understanding of what is "fair" or "just." Playing the game is legal, hosting it/profiting from this legal activity is not. For other "non-gambling" activities, like bowling or pool, profiting from these venues is legal, because bowling is not considered gambling, while poker is (again, you may diasgree, but this is the way laws in NY consider the matter).
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2005, 11:07 AM
burningyen burningyen is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is not illegal to host a legal activity.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is so wrong for so many reasons. Do call a lawyer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. For the sake of NYC poker please don't present this argument in court.
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  #26  
Old 09-01-2005, 01:07 PM
bravos1 bravos1 is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
GAMBLING is illegal. The biggest point to get across to people is that POKER IS NOT GAMBLING, it is a game of skill just as bridge and other games have been determined to be games of skill in NYC and as poker has been deemed in other parts of the country and so owning a club is not illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA.. I just love these idiotic posts... here ye... here ye.. "POKER IS NOT GAMBLING"!! Are you kidding me? Lets see... I can play a chess master 100,000 times in a row and I will have NO chance of winning even a SINGLE game because I SUCK at chess. I have NO SKILL in regards to chess. That is a game of skill and you have 100% control of whether you win, lose, or draw. Poker is NOT this way! Ever have a hit his ONE-outer on the river? Ever lose to someone with NO skill? If poker is ALL skill then this would never be the case. Is that not luck? This my friend, is what gambling is about. Yes, there is much skill involved in poker and you will see it over the long run, but if poker was not gambling, there would be no bad beat stories for use to enjoy in these forums [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. Players only have control over their actions, not what the board brings them or what cards they are dealt. Using your logic, black jack is not gambling either right?
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2005, 01:22 PM
bdk3clash bdk3clash is offline
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Location: New York City
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
GAMBLING is illegal. The biggest point to get across to people is that POKER IS NOT GAMBLING, it is a game of skill just as bridge and other games have been determined to be games of skill in NYC and as poker has been deemed in other parts of the country and so owning a club is not illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA.. I just love these idiotic posts... here ye... here ye.. "POKER IS NOT GAMBLING"!! Are you kidding me? Lets see... I can play a chess master 100,000 times in a row and I will have NO chance of winning even a SINGLE game because I SUCK at chess. I have NO SKILL in regards to chess. That is a game of skill and you have 100% control of whether you win, lose, or draw. Poker is NOT this way! Ever have a hit his ONE-outer on the river? Ever lose to someone with NO skill? If poker is ALL skill then this would never be the case. Is that not luck? This my friend, is what gambling is about. Yes, there is much skill involved in poker and you will see it over the long run, but if poker was not gambling, there would be no bad beat stories for use to enjoy in these forums [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]. Players only have control over their actions, not what the board brings them or what cards they are dealt. Using your logic, black jack is not gambling either right?

[/ QUOTE ]
This idiotic rant aside, poker pretty clearly fits the definition of gambling in the New York state constitution.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2005, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

does a skilled player win bridge every time?
then why is bridge LEGAL?

go ahead and explain that to me

the answer is that rich people that voted and cared to make a stink used their influence...

keep your mouths closed and save up gas money to go to ac and foxwoods because it's only a matter of time before every club in the city is closed...
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2005, 03:44 PM
bdk3clash bdk3clash is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New York City
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
does a skilled player win bridge every time?
then why is bridge LEGAL?

go ahead and explain that to me

the answer is that rich people that voted and cared to make a stink used their influence...

keep your mouths closed and save up gas money to go to ac and foxwoods because it's only a matter of time before every club in the city is closed...

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, chill. I'm not arguing whether the law is good or bad, just that it exists. People that try to argue that poker is a game of skill and therefore legal really should read the New York state constituion, which pretty clearly lays out what can be considered gambling and hence made illegal.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:06 PM
bravos1 bravos1 is offline
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Default Re: NYC - BPC Club raided

[ QUOTE ]
does a skilled player win bridge every time?
then why is bridge LEGAL?

go ahead and explain that to me


[/ QUOTE ]

If a skilled bridge player played against my 4 y/o they would win everytime! But the same can not be said for poker.. Do you see why?
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