Unlimited re-raising heads up (limit question).

Shoe · #1 07-31-2005, 06:08 PM

The B&M's by me have the rule where you can raise and unlimited number of times back and forth when you are heads up. However, this rule only applies if that round of betting started heads up.

For example, if there were 3 people going to the river, and 1 of them folded on the river, the other 2 would not be allowed to raise unlimited because there were more than 2 players that saw the river. My opinion is that once it gets heads up (even if 8 people started the round), the remaining 2 players should be able to raise back and forth as much as they want, as either play could still end the betting at anytime by calling. Why should having someone fold that round prevent unlimited raising heads up?

This rule does not make any sense to me, and I'm just wondering if there are any reasons for it, and if most casinos operate this way or if it is just a weird rule by me? Thanks.

BoxTree · #2 07-31-2005, 08:51 PM

That's not the way HU works in most SoCal casinos. If the hand ever becomes HU and there has NOT been a cap on that round, then an unlimited number of raises are allowed.

Ex. 1:

A bets the turn, B raises, C cold-calls, A 3-bets, B CAPS, C folds, A may NOT re-raise since there was a cap when there were more than two players in the hand.

Ex. 2:

A bets the turn, B calls, C raises, A 3-bets, B folds, C 4-bets...

C's 4-bet is not a cap because it was HU before C put in the fourth bet. A and C may now re-raise back and forth until one player is all-in.

If the casino's rule is "Unlimited raises are only allowed if the round started HU," then so be it. It's silly, but so is the $1 preflop rake. Bitches.

Onaflag · #3 07-31-2005, 08:54 PM

Same story in my town. The round has to begin heads-up for unlimited betting. I did, however, see something different a couple nights ago at Bay101.

The dealer allowed unlimited action between two players at the end when it began 3 handed. It was my first time at there, so I don't know if this is the norm or if the dealer screwed up. I liked it, nonetheless.

Onaflag.........

Randy_Refeld · #4 07-31-2005, 09:05 PM

Most places allow unlimited raising if it becomes heads up prior ot it being capped. A common rule is beginning the round heads up, this is typical in isolated places that copied the rules in the early 90s and haven't brought in people that are familiar with how poker is played across the country.

#5 08-02-2005, 12:57 PM

I think at B101 as long as there is no dead money in the pot on that street it can go unlimited, i.e. A bets, B folds, C raises, it is now heads up between A and C.

danzasmack · #6 08-02-2005, 01:01 PM

i would assume it would help against collusion.

+ the fish would bust out in like 2 hands.

BettyBoopAA · #7 08-02-2005, 01:05 PM

yes, The reason for the rule is to prevent collusion.

TheBusiness · #8 08-02-2005, 02:56 PM

Most casinos have a rule like this. On the west coast, it tends to be that the unlimited reraises heads up start as soon as it gets to heads up, whereas on the east coast, that entire round of betting must have started as heads up for there to be unlimited reraises. I am not positive of the reason for the rule, but I can see no problem with it because either of the two players can stop the reraising at any point by merely calling, since that would close the action.

ZenMusician · #9 08-02-2005, 03:22 PM

Unless you play at FW, where Mondays and Tuesdays the round
must be started by the two HU, Wednesdays nobody knows, Thursdays
and Fridays they flip a coin and on the weekends they just randomly
enforce it...this is by the way, how all rulings are handled there!

-ZEN

Rick Nebiolo · #10 08-02-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most casinos have a rule like this. On the west coast, it tends to be that the unlimited reraises heads up start as soon as it gets to heads up, whereas on the east coast, that entire round of betting must have started as heads up for there to be unlimited reraises. I am not positive of the reason for the rule, but I can see no problem with it because either of the two players can stop the reraising at any point by merely calling, since that would close the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "west coast" Bob Ciaffone style rule is superior. There is no reason to restrict raising just because the action starts three way at the beginning of the round.

The Ciaffone style rule provides just the right level of protection. Any time a player puts in a capping raise when three players are still active he knows that the betting is capped, even if one opponent (usually in for two bets) now folds making it head up. This encourages action yet offers reasonable protection against "surprise reraises".

~ Rick