Tournaments tax the bad players (x-post)

[t_perkin]

I posted this in reponse to something about the zero-rake site. But I thought some people here might be interested. I am pretty sure my thoughts are correct - but if anyone can see any holes in my thinking, please point them out.

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As a tournament player I am surprised that you don't recognise the practicality of a zero-rake policy.

All tournaments are effectively run on a zero-rake policy.
Rather than taking a percentage of the prize pool they take an equal amount from all participants, whether they win or lose.

The alternative would be to simply take 10% of the prize pool and nothing at buyin. This would penalise the winners more than the losers. In fact I am amazed that none of the poker rooms run their tournaments like this.


For example:
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2 players play 10 heads up $10+1 SnGs at Poker Stars

Player A wins 9 for a profit of $70
( 9 * 20 - 11 * 10 )

Player B wins 1 for a profit of -$90
( 1 * 20 - 11 * 10 )

Total rake = $20
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If instead Poker Stars said they would take 10% of the winnings and charged no rake. Again 2 players play 10 heads up SnGs:

Player A wins 9 for a profit of $62
( 9 * 20 * 0.9 - 10 * 10 )

Player B wins 1 for a profit of -$82
( 1 * 20 * 0.9 - 10 * 10 )

Total rake = $20
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It is not quite the same; tournament fees penalise those who win less, whereas the zero-rake site penalises those who play less. But it is a very similar concept. It is just considered more palatable in tournaments, because that is the way it has always been done.

If zero-rake were to be run on ring games as $x flat fee per 100 hands (i.e. somewhat equivalent to a seat charge) then it would be exactly the same as playing in a tournament.

So basically you can set the rake tariff however you like depending on who you want to tax the most.

If you want to tax the bad players:
For ring games you set a flat rake per hand.
For tournaments you have a buyin, just the way it is now.

If you want to tax the good players:
For ring games you have a rake from the pot, just as you do now.
For tournament you have a rake taken as a % of the prize pool.

If you want to tax the players who play a lot:
Don't have a flat fee.

If you want to tax the players who don't play very much:
Have a flat fee.


Just some thoughts


Tim

[frank2752]

I think it is exactly the same. In a 10+1, you are paying $11 and 9.09% (1/11), not 10% goes to the rake. Then you should pay $11 in your 2nd example, not $10, and 9.09%, not 10%, and it is exactly the same:

9*20 - 10 * 11 = 70
9*22 * (1-.0909) - 10 * 11 = 70

Either way, the same amount goes to the rake, and the same amount to the winner.