Nolan Ryan wins 300th game!!

[nolanfan34]

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The greatness of a ballplayer cannot be measured by stats alone!

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Your post (only the 4th in this forum this month) would be much better without this. At best, it's a total non-sequitur. At worst it's baiting. I'll give you the benefit of doubt since you're supposed to be a moderator.

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Gee, thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

My point in the whole post was merely that Nolan was awesome because he was fun to watch. He has a mix of awesome stats, and crappy stats, but he's an all-time great in my book because he was an exciting player to see pitch.

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I agree with you that he was a very exciting pitcher to watch. I'll also grant that he was an all-time great. However, he was exciting to watch because he was an all-time great, not the other way around.

I could post so much more but it would derail the topic even further and I don't know if I have it in me to write that much.

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I don't disagree with you at all there. It's a chicken/egg thing a bit I would say.

Anyway, was just surprised at the tone of your previous post. Glad someone is watching my post count though!

[tdarko]

nolanfan,

i feel like bragging. i was at nolan's 5000th strikeout and his 300th win, terrible seats for the 5K game (couldn't even see what pitch ricky was swingin' at), ok seats for the 300th win.

gloating,

~td

[tdarko]

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My point in the whole post was merely that Nolan was awesome because he was fun to watch. He has a mix of awesome stats, and crappy stats, but he's an all-time great in my book because he was an exciting player to see pitch.

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another thing: there are guys with as much courage and/or heart on the hill as nolan but never any with more and that isn't on a stat sheet.

one of the greatest memories of my short life so far is when i played in the big 12 tournament (we lost to texas in the championship, then 2 and Q in the world series--texas won it all that year FWIW) and before the tourny started nolan spoke at our formal dinner...then afterwards he hung out with us and talked with anyone that wanted to chat. he told some great stories and he is a class act...i love guys that will out work you to death (left the game throwing a mere 145 pitches!!!).

[Jack of Arcades]

Well, I think a lot of people conflate entertaining with great. That, and the ability to do one or two things really well has a tendency to make people overrate a player. The best example of that playing today is Ichiro.

I think Nolan Ryan was a very big beneficiary of the same things. Very fun to watch, very good at sriking people out, and he was just a freak of nature (in a very good way). Still, it's a shame when people like Bert Blyleven (who was probably better than Nolan) are forgotten when Nolan is called by many the greatest of all time.

Much <3 to Nolan, but you can't grow up in Louisiana without meeting a bunch of people who are a bit too fanatical . It's like a Mike Vick/Derek Jeter/Tom Brady thing, I guess.

[tdarko]

but nolan wasn't really a freak of nature, he was the hardest worker in the game which converted into a longer career than anyone else...a la roger clemens. if that makes you a freak of nature, then yeah i guess he was.

no, he isn't the greatest ever. but i have more respect for him than most. he pitched through anything, blood, injuries, [censored] teams, etc. its not fanatical to enjoy watching courage. it is fanatical to think mike vick is the saving grace of football or that he truly is a great QB.

what nolan did was great, b/c he may not have certain numbers that you stat geeks drool over but when i am teaching my son the game of baseball as my father taught me i will break out my old nolan tapes. he taught more than WHIP, he taught more than BB/K ratio. i know you are going to disagree and thats the beauty of the arguement b/c both sides are correct. a stat minded person is correct b/c he isn't even top 5 ever, i know this...but what he did on the field was special no matter how you break it down.

[Jack of Arcades]

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b/c he may not have certain numbers that you stat geeks drool over

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I really can't say much to your whole post, but just for future reference this is not a very good way to refer to someone.

[tdarko]

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I really can't say much to your whole post, but just for future reference this is not a very good way to refer to someone.


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why not? i consider myself a stat geek as well, this is why i agree to an extent to what you say in regards to nolan. i am not on the level you are with stats but i love the numbers part of sports, i really don't see how that is insulting?

my point was that typically "statisticians" get too one tracked, especially in this forum. sorry if i offended you, i will call you "the stat doctor" from now on [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img].

[Jack of Arcades]

Over the net it's pretty easy to confuse tone. "stat geek" isn't always meant as a term of endearment. no hard feelings :P

[Jack of Arcades]

I think part of the problem is that Nolan just has this whole mythology surrounding him, some of it true some of it misleading no doubt. I'm just so tired of hearing about every media darling how much heart and courage they have. It's a bit tiring to see anyone be put on a pedestal.

[tdarko]

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I'm just so tired of hearing about every media darling how much heart and courage they have.

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yeah the media is very annoying, but watching him pitch after taking a ball back up the middle from bo jackson and splitting his lip open (needing stitches) is something that i respected as a kid, to me that is heart...no matter what the media said, cause back then i didn't have the internet and i rarely paid attention to what the media said.

i remember watching him pitch (i was at the game) one night, he was in his mid 40's, he got roughed up in the first 2 innings and the pitching coach had already made one mound visit and nolan gave up a double down the line that made the score 0-5 and the pitching coach was out of the dugout to make his way to the mound (obviously to take him out since you only get two mound visits) and nolan motions for him to go back. my mom charted all the games we went to (she said it helped make the game pass) and he ended up getting to the 8th inning, throwing something like 140+ pitches and when he left the game the score was 5-5.

see i got so much out of watching that that someone reading the sports page wouldn't the next morning. the guy reading the sports page thinks, "hmmm nolan didn't get a win and his ERA went up and he walked 6 guys, good thing the rangers came back and saved his butt." what i saw was a middle aged man leave his heart on the field and give his team a chance to win the game and save his bullpen for the rest of the series. yeah he walked 5 guys in the first 2 innings and gave up 5 runs but he didn't quit and he didn't fold and there were plenty of pitchers on those early 90's ranger teams that would, cause i watched.

anyway, i like talking about nolan cause he was a childhood hero of mine (i guess nolanfan and i have something in common [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).