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  #471  
Old 11-24-2005, 06:34 PM
Slow Play Ray Slow Play Ray is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
final clarification, FBD style:

wheel velocity = conveyor velocity = lim(x) as x -> infinity. this is defined by the OP and the fact that the continual (feedback) acceleration of both is inevitable.

thrust velocity + wheel velocity - conveyor velocity = net velocity

since wheel velocity = conveyor velocity, then net velocity MUST equal thrust velocity

therefore, the plane can take off, as long as thrust velocity is great enough to create lift.

[/ QUOTE ]

holy crap i don't even remember posting this - nice to know i can still type when i'm wasted though. good for me.
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  #472  
Old 11-24-2005, 06:37 PM
Slow Play Ray Slow Play Ray is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
The last 30 pages didn't deal with the fact that you couldn't take off, but with the fact that the OP worded it wrong, and is now trying to support it by saying that, "oh yeah it works as you approach infinity."

[/ QUOTE ]

For the last time, I didn't word it wrong - I said my wording was intentional. If we don't agree on the solution, fine, but I posed the question I intended to pose.

I now officially hate this thread, lol.
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  #473  
Old 11-24-2005, 10:48 PM
milliondollaz milliondollaz is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

haha, no friction in the conveyor belt is different than no friction. if there is "no friction" then the bolts that hold the wings on would unscrew due to the weight on the wings and the wheels would slip on the rims and the conveyor belt couldn't be started or stopped ever. i never saw the no friction=no viscous drag post.

i'm right btw and 95% of the "infinity < infinity + 1" post are retarded. you guys have no concept of infinity, it's not a flippin number that you can perform addition on
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  #474  
Old 11-24-2005, 11:02 PM
jman220 jman220 is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
haha, no friction in the conveyor belt is different than no friction. if there is "no friction" then the bolts that hold the wings on would unscrew due to the weight on the wings and the wheels would slip on the rims and the conveyor belt couldn't be started or stopped ever. i never saw the no friction=no viscous drag post.

i'm right btw and 95% of the "infinity < infinity + 1" post are retarded. you guys have no concept of infinity, it's not a flippin number that you can perform addition on

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, this really is the last time I post in this thread, I swear.

Using OP's logic, you could prove 1+1=5. How you ask?

infinity+(1+1)=(5)+infinity


Cancel out infinity on each side

OMG, 1+1=5! Obviously you can't do this, because as you say, its not a number you can perform addition on. However, thats basically what he's doing by saying, yeah the conveyer belt's speed is the same as the wheels when they both reach infinity. Its a retarded argument, and the original OP did not specify "will this plane take off when the speed of the wheels and the treadmill reach infinity). It asked "will this plane take off if the speed of the wheels is equal to that of the treadmill." The answer is no. At whatever POINT the plane actually takes off, at that POINT in time, the wheels are moving faster than the treadmill. That is all that matters.
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  #475  
Old 11-24-2005, 11:36 PM
d10 d10 is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
i'm right btw

[/ QUOTE ]

Im still thinking that even if we assume the conveyor belt will produce this effect, it will create downforce, not lift. Actually after spending part of my 12 hour drive home today thinking about it, I'm almost sure that would be the case.
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  #476  
Old 11-25-2005, 01:04 AM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

I only read about the first 15 pages of this, so this could have been already taken care of in the last 40. For those that still can't get around the wheel speed aspect, put the plane on skates instead of wheels.
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  #477  
Old 11-25-2005, 05:00 AM
Lazymeatball Lazymeatball is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

I watched "The Aviator" tonight and all i could think of is this thread.
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  #478  
Old 11-25-2005, 05:06 AM
diebitter diebitter is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
I watched "The Aviator" tonight and all i could think of is this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because of the ridiculous (but inspired) obsessiveness with minutiae?
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  #479  
Old 11-25-2005, 05:32 AM
Lazymeatball Lazymeatball is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

because I would have to wash my hands till they bleed if I ever touched one of you ignorant OOT cretins. I'm gonna go drink milk now and pee in to a bottle.

ps. I could totally live the Howard Hughes secluded insane lifestyle.
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  #480  
Old 11-25-2005, 09:34 AM
PairTheBoard PairTheBoard is offline
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Default Re: think about this...

[ QUOTE ]
Redd:
<font color="white">.
</font>
Not directed at wookie, but OP is too far away:

Looks like we're not the first to have trouble with this

[/ QUOTE ]

The link gives this statement of the problem:

"A plane is standing on runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in opposite direction).

The question is:

Will the plane take off or not? Will it be able to run up and take off? "

Totally different problem and easy to see the answer is Yes. The wheels just spin at twice the normal rate.

The OP's version is different, tying the conveyer speed to the wheel speed - which we all assume to mean the speed of the wheel spin. The answer to the OP's version is clearly, HUH?. It's true that as far as effecting the plane's thrust, it doesn't matter what the conveyer and wheels are doing, AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT DOING SOMETHING THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

If I walk against a moving conveyer I must walk faster than it's moving in order to go forward. If I increase the speed of my step and the conveyer instantly does likewise, my back foot will move backwards exactly as fast as I step forward and I make no progress. The OP is asking the impossible with his version unless you convolute his meaning to match the version quoted above.

Thanks to Redd for the Link.


PairTheBoard
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