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  #11  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:15 AM
Robb Robb is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to the following, the majority of you, including myself, do. Unless there is something wrong with my math.

This is in a 10/20 HE game, where there is a $5.00 rake instead of paying time.

The 2nd player to act opened the action by limping with Js, Td. The next player to limp in held 8s 8d, who was followed by a player with 6c 5c. The 4th player, holding Qh, Qd, raised and the Button, holding Ac, Kc, re-raised. The blinds folded and the other players called.

There are 5 players seeing the flop with 8 big bets in the pot, as the small blind goes for the rake. You hold pocket eights and contributed 1.5 big bets, so your prospective winnings are 6.50 big bets.

The Flop came: 9c 8s 2c

This gives JT is an open ended straight, the pocket queens an overpair, the AK & 65 flush draws and you a set of eights. You will win the pot (according to twodimes.net) 61.27% of the time.

JT checked and you bet, followed by 65 who called and QQ raised. The AK called, as did the JT with his straight draw, followed by 65, with what he thought was a live flush draw. You now re-raised, 65 & QQ called, and AK, with the nut flush draw, re-raised. JT called, 88 capped it and everyone called, for a total of 10 big bets put in on the Flop, of which 2 were contributed by 88, so he know has 14.50 BBs that can be won, versus 3.5 BBs bet by you = 4.14:1 on your money, making it a long-term +EV play.

The problem is that 1. If a Queen comes on the Turn, you’re tied to the pot, as well as when a 7 comes. Not even a club can get you out of the pot on the Turn, as you have a redraw to a full house.

So, on the Turn, you are going to see it go 3 bets minimum, with all four opponents calling, giving you another 12 BBs in possible winnings. We will say the River will get you two opponents paying 2 more bets for a showdown. That’s a total of 28.50 BBs that can be won and 8.5 BBs that can be lost.

So our net +EV = [(28.50*.6127)*$20]–[(8.5*.3873)*$20] = $349.24 - $65.84 = $283.40.

Now the TIP: if you tip $2.00*(.6127*100) = $122.54/$283.40 = 43% of your net +EV going to the dealer.

If you TIP $1.00, it’s only 21.5%!! Only!! Doesn’t that suck, giving over 20% of your net +EV to the dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]
This post seems like japanese so I must be missing something big.

1. You don't tip when you lose
2. According to your calc...when you win, you win 28.5 BB's * $20 = $570.

2.00/570 = .35% not 43%

[/ QUOTE ]
Or maybe there's an inside joke I missed.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:16 AM
Leaky Eye Leaky Eye is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: norcal
Posts: 84
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

How much am I tipping when I bluff on the turn with a hand that is drawing dead?
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:19 AM
TaintedRogue TaintedRogue is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 46
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to the following, the majority of you, including myself, do. Unless there is something wrong with my math.

This is in a 10/20 HE game, where there is a $5.00 rake instead of paying time.

The 2nd player to act opened the action by limping with Js, Td. The next player to limp in held 8s 8d, who was followed by a player with 6c 5c. The 4th player, holding Qh, Qd, raised and the Button, holding Ac, Kc, re-raised. The blinds folded and the other players called.

There are 5 players seeing the flop with 8 big bets in the pot, as the small blind goes for the rake. You hold pocket eights and contributed 1.5 big bets, so your prospective winnings are 6.50 big bets.

The Flop came: 9c 8s 2c

This gives JT is an open ended straight, the pocket queens an overpair, the AK & 65 flush draws and you a set of eights. You will win the pot (according to twodimes.net) 61.27% of the time.

JT checked and you bet, followed by 65 who called and QQ raised. The AK called, as did the JT with his straight draw, followed by 65, with what he thought was a live flush draw. You now re-raised, 65 & QQ called, and AK, with the nut flush draw, re-raised. JT called, 88 capped it and everyone called, for a total of 10 big bets put in on the Flop, of which 2 were contributed by 88, so he know has 14.50 BBs that can be won, versus 3.5 BBs bet by you = 4.14:1 on your money, making it a long-term +EV play.

The problem is that 1. If a Queen comes on the Turn, you’re tied to the pot, as well as when a 7 comes. Not even a club can get you out of the pot on the Turn, as you have a redraw to a full house.

So, on the Turn, you are going to see it go 3 bets minimum, with all four opponents calling, giving you another 12 BBs in possible winnings. We will say the River will get you two opponents paying 2 more bets for a showdown. That’s a total of 28.50 BBs that can be won and 8.5 BBs that can be lost.

So our net +EV = [(28.50*.6127)*$20]–[(8.5*.3873)*$20] = $349.24 - $65.84 = $283.40.

Now the TIP: if you tip $2.00*(.6127*100) = $122.54/$283.40 = 43% of your net +EV going to the dealer.

If you TIP $1.00, it’s only 21.5%!! Only!! Doesn’t that suck, giving over 20% of your net +EV to the dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]
This post seems like japanese so I must be missing something big.

1. You don't tip when you lose
2. According to your calc...when you win, you win 28.5 BB's * $20 = $570.

2.00/570 = .35% not 43%

[/ QUOTE ]
Or maybe there's an inside joke I missed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it was a joke. The math is missing 1 important variable.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:22 AM
TaintedRogue TaintedRogue is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 46
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So our net +EV = [(28.50*.6127)*$20]–[(8.5*.3873)*$20] = $349.24 - $65.84 = $283.40.

Now the TIP: if you tip $2.00*(.6127*100) = $122.54/$283.40 = 43% of your net +EV going to the dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you tipping $200?

[/ QUOTE ]

It shows me tipping $122.54 over the 61.27 hands that I win.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:29 AM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,677
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

Out of every 100 hands, you win 61.27 of them. You profit 61.27 x $570 = $34,923.90. You lose 38.73 hands. You lose 38.73 x $170 = $6,584.10. You net $28,339.80.

If you tip $2 for every hand you win, you tip $122.54. That's .43% of the profit.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2005, 02:38 AM
TaintedRogue TaintedRogue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 46
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]
Out of every 100 hands, you win 61.27 of them. You profit 61.27 x $570 = $34,923.90. You lose 38.73 hands. You lose 38.73 x $170 = $6,584.10. You net $28,339.80.

If you tip $2 for every hand you win, you tip $122.54. That's .43% of the profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Of course......PokerBob may tip .86% if he wants to bang the dealer.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2005, 06:47 PM
jogumon jogumon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 0
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]

It shows me tipping $122.54 over the 61.27 hands that I win.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, It shows you tipping $122.54, on average, EVERY hand. This is the only place where you decided to multiply by 100.
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:20 PM
worm33 worm33 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 112
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

[ QUOTE ]
i only tip the dealers i want to bang.

[/ QUOTE ]


Canterbury dealers......eeeeeeew
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2005, 09:24 PM
goofball goofball is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 43
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

There's only one dealer at the Wynn I want to bang. And she's a little crazy.
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2005, 03:30 AM
Ray Zee Ray Zee is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 2,043
Default Re: Do you give 43% of your net +EV to the Dealer?

most smaller stake players will never have a bankroll greater than what they have tipped in the past after a few years of play.
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