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#1
09-25-2005, 11:28 PM
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20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
Live at the Borgata in Atlantic City. Evening with regulars and tourists. Five people limped and I raised with KQ of hearts. It came back to me capped at $80.00 with seven opponents. $640.00 in the pot.
Flop: Js 9h 3d UTG, who had limped preflop and then re-raised, led out, 3 callers and I called. Then the BB raised and UTG re-raised. Two of the three other players called and I called two bets cold. $300.00 added to the $640.00 pot, with 5 players. I was getting 60/4 on my call. Turn: [Js,9h,3d]5c SB cks, UTG bets, 2 callers, I call & the SB ck/raises and we all called. $400 more for a total of $1340.00 Of course, I caught the ten on the river. The SB, who had a set of Js bet, got two callers, I raised and got two callers. Of course, the SB with JJ thought I was a fool. I thought JJ played his set perfectly until the river, however, unlike him, I thought I played my hand perfectly also. 
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#2
09-25-2005, 11:42 PM
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Re: 20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
Is it a 4 or 5 bet cap? The only potential problem I see is that you might get raised again on the flop, and if its a 5 bet cap the idea of calling that many more bets isn't appealing.
If your're really curious, look at your absolute odds to determine if you made the right play or not. If i'm counting it right you ended up winning a pot that had 37.5 BB (discounting all money you invested post flop)in it. After the flop you had to call 3.5 BB so you got 37.5:3.5. If my math is right, your about a 6:1 dog to hit your gutter, and your getting a little better than 10:1, so i'd say even when you look at the whole hand it looks like you needed to see the river. I do think, however, its important to note how not closing the action can drastically affect these kinds of situations. I also think that assuming that all 4 of your outs are live might be a mistake, as there are a lot of hands w/ Tens in them that your opponents may be calling with. Even if you assume that you have 2 shots at 3 outs, however, its still correct to see the river, mostly because of your relative postion on the aggressor and your ability to get a lot of extra bets on the river. how'd I do? lf
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#4
09-26-2005, 12:44 AM
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Re: 20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
[ QUOTE ]
Is it a 4 or 5 bet cap? [/ QUOTE ] It's a 4 bet cap here. I take it you're in Vegas.. [ QUOTE ] The only potential problem I see is that you might get raised again on the flop, and if its a 5 bet cap the idea of calling that many more bets isn't appealing. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I was most concerned about. The SB & UTG knew each other, and, if they were "teaming," I was in trouble. I had been at the table less than a 1/2 hour and hadn't drawn a conclusion. Because of the unknown variable, which dawned on me UTG re-raised on the flop, I had to assume I was going to put in $60 more to see the turn. By that time, there was 3 players putting in $60 and if the BB capped it, the other 3 would certainly call, so that's a total of 4 players * $80 = $320 + my $20 + $640 on the flop, so I'm getting $980/60 or 16:1. I went strickly on those odds of making my hand on the turn, being up against a set and having my hand hold up 3 out of 4 times. I did not discount my four outs to the gutshot, as I had a backdoor flush draw. [ QUOTE ] If your're really curious, look at your absolute odds to determine if you made the right play or not. [/ QUOTE ] I considered myself jammed up between two players until the BB didn't cap it on the flop. When UTG bet the turn, I had to call one to see what happened. When UTG just called the BB's ck/raise, I knew I was ok. [ QUOTE ] If i'm counting it right you ended up winning a pot that had 37.5 BB (discounting all money you invested post flop)in it. After the flop you had to call 3.5 BB so you got 37.5:3.5. If my math is right, your about a 6:1 dog to hit your gutter, and your getting a little better than 10:1, so i'd say even when you look at the whole hand it looks like you needed to see the river. [/ QUOTE ] $1620.00 in the pot at the end. I put in $60 on the flop and $80 on the turn. $1480.00 profit. 10.57:1 return. However, I had to make each decision to call/fold on its face value, as I did not know if BB & UTG were just friends or "teammates." So, on the turn I figured I would have to call $160.00 to to see the river. BB & UTG would have $160 each & if one other player put in $160.00 and the other nothing more than the first $40.00, that's $520.00 to go with the $940.00, or, $1460/160; 9.13:1 pot odds. [ QUOTE ] I do think, however, its important to note how not closing the action can drastically affect these kinds of situations. I also think that assuming that all 4 of your outs are live might be a mistake, as there are a lot of hands w/ Tens in them that your opponents may be calling with. Even if you assume that you have 2 shots at 3 outs, however, its still correct to see the river, mostly because of your relative postion on the aggressor and your ability to get a lot of extra bets on the river. [/ QUOTE ] Yes! It gets quite expensive. [ QUOTE ] how'd I do? lf [/ QUOTE ] Excellent [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#5
09-26-2005, 01:29 AM
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Re: 20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
"the SB with JJ thought I was a fool."
He's wrong. And he's wrong to think that a person is a fool for how they play cards. And he's wrong to say to another person you're a fool or you played your cards foolishly. He's wrong and he's a loser. What'd you say when he said you were a fool?
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#7
09-26-2005, 06:23 PM
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Re: 20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
[ QUOTE ]
"the SB with JJ thought I was a fool." He's wrong. And he's wrong to think that a person is a fool for how they play cards. And he's wrong to say to another person you're a fool or you played your cards foolishly. He's wrong and he's a loser. What'd you say when he said you were a fool? [/ QUOTE ] Since I wanted him to have no respect for my play [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I told him I was on tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#8
09-26-2005, 06:27 PM
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Re: Barron an example
[ QUOTE ]
barron, if you read this here is an example of where i think KQS was wonderfully played. this is different to the earlier hand we "discussed." [/ QUOTE ] Wow! Thanks! I am so glad I'm in the habit of reminding the dealers (when they fail to do so) that it is their responsibility to announce the number of players.....makes it so much easier to count bets....but it was close. At least, it felt as if I was threading a needle. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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#9
09-26-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: 20/40 Hold Em; Chasing for the Right Price?
[ QUOTE ]
"the SB with JJ thought I was a fool." He's wrong. And he's wrong to think that a person is a fool for how they play cards. And he's wrong to say to another person you're a fool or you played your cards foolishly. He's wrong and he's a loser. What'd you say when he said you were a fool? [/ QUOTE ] and what's more, the guy LIMP-RERAISED WITH JACKS. that's just weird (albeit not bad in such a loose game)
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