Exposed Ethics

bomblade · #1 10-31-2003, 12:17 AM

Recently I was in a hand in which someone exposed their hand on the river. I don't remember the limit, the hand itself, or very much on the specifics.
There were three of us left on the river. I was in the 2 seat, they were sitting in the 8 and 9. I had position. 8 seat bet, 9 started to muck his hand, and as I getting my chips ready, to raise or just call, the 8 seat put his cards over, and the 9 was looking at his. The whole table saw the cards, when a player or two, and maybe the dealer, told him there was still someone in the hand. Obviously, I know what he has, and I know that my hand was better, and I might have raised regardless, so I raised. He decided to call, reluctantly, staring me down. I showed down my hand, it wasn't the nuts, it wasn't the flush, I think we both had top pair, my kicker was slightly better. He got mad and tossed the cards towards/at the dealer. There seemed like there was this buzz around the table like my play was unethical.
In my opinion, there is nothing else to do, but raise. But maybe there are some other opinions.

MrGrob · #2 10-31-2003, 12:42 AM

I might not have raised, just to keep a happier table, but I would have said, "Well, I could raise you here, but I'll just call y'all." Might make a friend and save a bet or two later [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Homer · #3 10-31-2003, 03:29 AM

Unless these people are fish that you play with every day and would like to keep happy, I see no reason not to raise and get an hour of earn. The other player screwed up by turning his hand over, why should you be made to suffer? Also, if you indicate that you are going to be nice and not raise since you saw his hand, he and/or others may expose their mediocre hands in the future to deter you from betting the river.

-- Homer

chesspain · #4 10-31-2003, 10:17 AM

I agree with Homer--nothing wrong here with raising. It's not like his hand got accidently flipped over. It seems that every time I play at a B&M someone at some point shows their hand before the river action is over. Would it have been unethical to muck if you knew you were beaten? Of course not!

MrDannimal · #5 10-31-2003, 11:19 AM

If this guy showed his hand, and you then raised, and he called, I wouldn't feel bad. I mean, you COULD be pulling a play on him bluffing at his exposed cards, but isn't it more likely that you have him beat and you KNOW it?

ExNihilo · #6 10-31-2003, 05:53 PM

I would have raised him and then said, "You're drawing dead." Then if he calls it's on his head...

Mike · #7 11-02-2003, 02:07 AM

I'm there with you. You know what his hand is, and you know he's beat. What's to be gained by rubbing salt in the wound? I wouldn't want to be played that way if I were the player in question. Raise and tell him he's beat. Show your hand, and everyone is happy whether he called your hand or not. I'd rather a happy table than collect an extra BB.

LetsRock · #8 11-13-2003, 01:42 PM

You did nothing wrong. It is every players responsibility to protect thier own hand. It is your responsibility to take advantage of any of your opponents' mistakes, flashing their cards included.

Obviously, you should not be trying to see others hole cards, but you have every right to act on any information that you gain by exposed cards - especially if the rest of the table saw them too. Information is information.

CORed · #9 11-13-2003, 03:30 PM

I was involved in a very similar situation recently. I had a set of Q's on K high board. When the dealer prompted him to act on the river, he mistakenly exposed his KJ, quickly turned them back over after realizing his mistake, and then bet his hand. I raised, he questioned whether I could do that after seeing his cards, and the dealer said "He has that option". In this case, only the player who exposed his cards seemed to think I did anything unfair.

I have also made this mistake once or twice. I never expected the other players to give me a break and was mad only at myself for not paying attention and making such a dumbass mistake.

Also, given that you screwed up and exposed your hand, why bet? Anyone who has a worse hand and is not brain dead will most likely fold, or possibly raise. Anyone that has a better hand and is not brain dead will raise. If you check, you are making it cheaper for worse hands to bluff, but you only cost yourself one bet if you absolutely have to keep them honest. It seems that, unless you are up against some very tricky players, or the pot is very large, that your best course is to check and fold to a bet.