Free Card

[slim]

10-20 live
I post in the cutoff after moving seats and get a free play with A-2 off. The button folds and there are 5 other players in for a flop of A-4-4r. It is checked to me and I check. Good or bad play?

Turn is a Jack. check, check check, bet, fold and I raise.

Good or bad play?

[bomblade]

No raise preflop, you can't think anyone has a strong A, and by them checking, you can't figure they have an A period. I'd definitely bet the flop.

[DocHollyday]

I wouldn't raise preflop with this crap, but if checked to you, bet the flop. Like that you can represent having a 4, which is more scary than your ace no kicker. For turn and river play it depends, how many (and what type of) players stay in the pot and if you get raised. But if checked to you, I'd bet the turn again, and probably check the river, if someone goes down the whole street only calling.

[samdash]

Hi Slim
I like your play on the flop. This is one of those situations where you're either way ahead or way behind. A free card is basically meaningless in this scenario.
Your turn raise is o.k. too. Fold to a 3 bet and check behind on the river if he calls your raise.

[DanZ]

I don't see much point to raising the turn, unless it's to fold an ace. Anyone who trails now has 4 outs or 2, so you welcome them callign a big bet.

By calling, you preserve 2 outs in case you are daringa against a 4, though it may be 1 or 0 outs agaisnt A4 or 44.

Checking the flop is ok, but, if certain players check and call on the flop, you can be certain your hand is no good for a mere half bet.

Dan Z.

[slim]

Hi guys,

I checked the flop because I have no kicker and because I wanted to induce a bet on the turn and hopefully make a better Ace fold. Most people wait for the turn to raise when they flop trips so that's what I wanted to represent. If I had a 4, I would have bet the flop to represent an ace. I think this is one of those hands that you can play in 2 ways and it'll cost the same. The way I played it will cost 2 BB's. The other way would be to bet the flop, check the turn and call a river bet which would cost 1.5BB but then there's no chance of making a stronger ace fold.

[DanZ]

I do like this thought. However, on the turn, it is much more likely someone is betting a 4 or a J than an ace, and in either of these cases, you do not want to raise.

You would like to call and trap the jack into checking and calling on the river, and, of course, raising the 4 is a losing proposition.

Another thought for this hand is the decision to check on the flop. This is certainly a good board and hand to try to slowplay. However, with this board, it is very obviously a slowplay board. This means a 4 would likely slowplay, and others are less likely to fall for it. The correctness of a slowplay here depends greatly on your opponents awareness and skill.

Another consideration is your position, a lot of times, you will automatically bet if checked to on the flop in order to pick up the pot (or steal from the BB with similar, raggedy boards), so you may want to bet with a real hand in spots like these more than what initially appears optimal (resisting the temptation to trap). This will provide cover for your pure bluffs and weak semi-bluffs in the future, especially if someone calls you here for a split.

Just a few thoughts. I do like the thought of forcing out another ace on the turn for half the pot (the J should take care of any kicker trouble).

Dan Z.

[Ray Zee]

how about checking the flop and folding to any other bets the rest of the hand. hey there are six players in before the flop. your hand isnt worth playing on unless you get a real clue it is best. which very often it isnt.

[J_V]

Isn't that checked flop you clue, Ray? I think just calling the turn is a better idea. I really like the flop check. It's close to routine.

[slim]

I hate to disagree with you Ray Zee because I will probably get flamed by everyone but......

I think this is one of those hands that is weak but NOT too vulnerable, if that makes sense. As opposed to a strong but vulnerable hand such as bottom 2 pair with a connecting flop against a large field. With a flop of A-4-4r, and no PF raise, you are unlikely to be up against a better Ace. With no PF raise, whoever has an Ace probably has a kicker worse that 10 or 9 so any turn or river larger than their kicker will give me a chop. Of course, I don't like playiong for chops but I don't like folding a winning hand either. The only real worry is a 4 which is unlikey especially since it was checked on the flop and almost on the turn. The most likely players to have a 4 would be the blinds and they both checked the flop and turn. Of course if I raise the turn and got re-raised it would be an easy fold. I think if I am leading on the flop, it is tough hand to get rivered so it's not worth folding to a turn bet.

Please explain the flip side.