I pushed the raise button till my fingers were numb

[Frank Zappy]

Nothing wrong with playing 92 for free, nothing wrong with raising with 2 pair on that flop.

If you don't press your advantages when you get lucky how will you ever make up for getting otherwise good hands cracked?

Had the SB 3bet the flop, the sirens would have went off, and saved you some bets as you could have put him on 9T, or maybe 22, or even 87. In any event the 6 on the turn would have been a very bad card for you had he 3bet.

SB betting then 3 betting the Turn was really good news for you and you could have put him on a 78, 96s or T6s and have been done with the hand.

Fold the turn bet is the conservative and probably correct play. Try not to make lots of bets with marginal hands in small pots.

If you decide to Call the turn bet, do so knowing that you're not getting the right odds, will have Hellfire rain down on you from this board and are dead to a 2 or 9.

[hemstock]

Well why didn't you pick up Hellmuth's book how to play poker like the pros. Some say it's the bible of poker.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
is this post a joke?

if not, you have several serious misunderstandings about this game.

i don't like your turn cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never mind capping the turn - the more I think about this one, the less I like the first turn raise, and here's why -

SB leads out on a pretty coordinated flop, you raise, and he calls. So far, nothing out of the ordinary - there could be all sorts of draws he's on.

But then a non-diamond, non-paint card hits, and he leads out again - even though you just raised him. He's in effect saying - I know you're going to raise me again, but I don't care! In my experience, people still on a draw on the turn will check to the flop raiser the overwhelming majority of the time. Unless you know him to just donk out a bet on every street because his check button doesn't work, I have to think that he's no longer on a draw here. The only thing you're really beating here is an overplayed AT/KT.

Based on the way he's playing, I'd expect to see a set maybe 70% of the time, a straight probably 20%, and an overplayed TPTK 10%. None of which looks good for your 2-pair.

This one's easy. Everything about this hand should put up a yellow light (or red for that matter) to you. Everyone limped, so since we don't know what the people who folded had, we can say no one made a really big mistake pre-flop. Personally, I fold the Q 10, and probably raise the suited connectors with so many limpers. After the flop, you had the best hand, but you were not the favorite (if you were, it was barely in your favor). SB was right to bet with an open ended straight flush draw, you were right to raise, Q 10 could justify a call by putting you both on a straight or flush draw, but he really should have folded to a bet and raise, the rest...who knows. But with 5 people in this pot, you have to figure someone is on a open-ended or flush draw. HAVE TO. I think this is your mistake. When the 6 comes, and a caller becomes a raiser....odds are he just hit. At these limits, there aren't a lot of people who know how to represent hands. They telegraph their hands to you, as did SB in this instance. Since the pot was getting large for these limits, I can justify you calling or even raising, but you had to do so with the knowledge that you were probably behind. You're hoping for a miracle 9 or 2 and a 5'th street cap. You even had pot odds to call the final bet, even though by now you should suspect you've lost. So, the only mistakes that I can see that you made are raising the 3-bet (even though it can be justified, it's still not a good idea) and labeling SB an idiot. Of course he knew what he was drawing for. Why else is he betting on his draw, calling your raise (but not re-raising) and then 3-betting when he hits. To me, he played the hand just right. He was able to limp in with a drawing hand, get a good flop, and hit his draw. He really didn't do anything wrong at all. The Q 10, yeah, an idiot. SB, I'd say he simply outplayed you on that hand. We all get outplayed more often than we'd like to admit it. It's just part of the game. Get used to it and let it go instead of venting on here to try to get somebody to make you feel better about your mistake. I'm not trying to be rude, that's simply a lesson everyone has to learn at some point if they want to play cards for money.

[beset7]

two pair isn't a very good hand on coordinated boards when people go nuts.

[charlie_t_jr]

Not sure if I should respond seriously to this post, as it seems to be a joke post:

[ QUOTE ]
5) <font color="red">Please if you feel the need to comment on my pre flop play do it in a PM. I will answer you and tell you how stupid I was for not folding/raising this hand out of the blind. This hand and my play is not about preflop. </font> If you think that it is please PM me and I will listen.

?? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

If your comments about the winner are geniune, then I think you have some re-reading to do. I think his big mistake was not putting more bets in on the flop.

The turn cap from you was way out of line.

[bozlax]

I'll just pluck out a nugget, here:

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I fold the Q 10, and probably raise the suited connectors with so many limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to fold QTs on the Button in an unraised pot, and raise 87s in the SB? Not for nothin' (and I certainly wouldn't have done it, but folding is a bigger mistake, IMO), but if button had raised preflop, this hand probably wouldn't have seen the turn.

I suspect OP was a joke post.

If it wasn't: SB played correctly*. You didn't. Period. Re-read SSHE and see if you can find where it tells you to "represent" anything, much less a non-existent higher straight. (Hint: you'll be looking for a long time.)

If it was: haw haw, pwn pwn, you are soooo cool.







Edit: *SB should have reraised the flop, costing you even more money.

[VoraciousReader]

This discussion has run its course (and then some!), in my opinion. Every possible microcosm of value has been extracted from what was originally a borderline rant/bad beat/joke post. I'm locking the thread.

If anyone disagrees or wants to continue discussing this, please PM me.