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#21
10-28-2005, 12:53 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] problem is you miss bets against KK or QQ. I often say things like "don't think of things as simple as WA/WB" for reasons like this. the game is way to complex to do something all the time in a given scenario. if you had position, then you could employ a "call down but bet if checked to" line and it would work. but here you give up too much when behind. [/ QUOTE ] Is that last word supposed to be "ahead"? /mc [/ QUOTE ] yes, I do that a ton, don't I? I guess that's the problem with being a shitty multitasker that insists on multitasking 
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#22
10-28-2005, 12:55 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
[ QUOTE ]
yes, I do that a ton, don't I? I guess that's the problem with being a shitty multitasker that insists on multitasking [/ QUOTE ] You post some extremely insightful stuff, but lots of it is garbled by noise. I would love it if you took an extra 30 seconds to check for typos. No disrespect, I think we would all benefit. /mc
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#23
10-28-2005, 01:25 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
sthief, in this spot (against a loose fish sb vs. button) I would go for the checkraise on the flop. I don't think very many hands check here and this prevents him taking a free river/showdown. Can you elaborate on why you prefer donking over this line? Here are the benefits I see for donking over checkraising:
Benefits of donking over checkraising: 1) It induces a bluff raise from a worse hand, particularly unpaired hands like KQ. 2) You lose one less sb assuming he has a better hand and 3bets the flop and bets the whole way. 3) It prevents him from checking the flop (although like I said I think this is rare) Negatives: 1) If he doesn't raise but calls down you get more by checkraising (I'm assuming he doesn't fold a lower pair much if he's a loose fish). 2) You get more from an unpaired KQ type of hand that doesn't bluffraise a donkbet. 3bets go in on the flop sometimes when he has a worse hand instead of 1-2. Thoughts?
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#25
10-28-2005, 02:23 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
i agree, i think being a button/SB war against a loose fish, his capping standards are pretty wide. I think the number of hands he's calling down with will be pretty wide too, and to get the most value out of him, i would take the checkraise line so i stay the aggressor throughout the hand.
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#28
10-28-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
Happy to see so many responses to what was initially a bit of a joke post. I have a couple things to add.
Probably about 30-40% of the time given my cards, the preflop cap, and the cards that flopped, I will lead out and hope to 3 bet. Most of the time I go for the checkraise. I like them to know I will checkraise and this does gain me some respect when I am in desperate need of a card and have no intention of calling a bet let alone checkraising. When the fish checks behind one of 2 things have happened. Either he is already aware of my checkraising proclivities or he has what he believes to be a monster. When he raises my turn bet it is almost certainly the latter. In all seriousness I do not think it would be out of line to just fold right there. In that I did not, I probably was owned. Anyhow the fish could have gotten more money out of me by simply betting the flop, calling my checkraise, and then raising me on the turn or river. He took a line that lost me the least without me actually folding. The 2+2'r making fun of me after, reinforced in the fish's mind that he made a great play. So the "owned, owned, owned..." thing was actually a good thing. No need to give him a hard time in any event because we constantly berate each other at the table all in the name of fun. His attempts at putting me down are generally sulu but that's to be expected from a retard.
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#29
10-28-2005, 11:49 PM
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Re: I just got owned and laughed at
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but I don't understand how this isn't a WA/WB situation [/ QUOTE ] no. the only hands we are behing is ak (8ways) and aa (1 way). we are ahead of kk-jj (15 ways). [/ QUOTE ] but isn't this WA/WB? you're either way ahead or way behind, right? c/r'ing this flop is bad if they have KK/JJ, cause they're not going to call down - or am I missing something? what's the best line? bet/call, check/call, bet? bet/call, check/call, check/call? I just can't see a flop c/r being optimal
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