I have no clue what I am doing. (hand against LAG)

TheWorstPlayer · #1 01-29-2005, 05:55 AM

Villain is 47/19/4.5 AF. He has been "making moves" and bluffing. How the heck would you guys play this hand? I think I played it just about as poorly as possible.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($89.58)
MP ($12.5)
Button ($25.55)
Hero ($56.95)
BB ($48.7)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $0.5. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $1.75, BB calls $1.50, MP folds.

Flop: ($4.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2, BB raises to $4, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($12.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, Hero calls $3.

River: ($24.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $36.50

fimbulwinter · #2 01-29-2005, 06:06 AM

when you've isolated a dumb lag, check/"think"/call is your friend with TPGK and a bankroll that can handle big swings.

your bets will have zero folding equity against a DLAG, so why make them?

This is another overarching thing that a lot of players learn in NL holdem, especially as they progress (sure took me a while...):

First a player starts off as loose passive and likes to call a lot cos "they're bluffing" and "he might fold a winner"

Then a player likes to bet a lot cos "they might fold or i might win"

Finally a good player realizes that betting has its advantages (namely the folding equity of bets and the ability to stop future bluffs on a possibly shaky hand) and calling has its advantages (better pot odds offered to the caller and the ability to induce future bluffs).

getting to that final level is hard, i can attest.

fim

TheWorstPlayer · #3 01-29-2005, 06:11 AM

So should I have not raised preflop, not bet the flop, not bet the turn, and/or not bet the river? Also, should I have done something other than call his raises at any point? I.e. re-raise or fold?

fimbulwinter · #4 01-29-2005, 06:18 AM

my line is complete SB, call his PFR if he makes it (you're ahead of most hands he raises here, right?), check/call flop, check/call turn and check/call river unless he really turns up the heat on any street. you have tons of info in a partial info game (namely that he's a bad lag) so use it to hurt him.

I dont do this if i don't have the bankroll to handle it. if im playing live with 2 buyins in pocket, i either raise the flop or turn, looking for an easy decision on the river. i feel the above line is the best (long term) against bad online LAGs but also the one that carries the highest variance. you have to go into the hand willing to call off your whole stack on TPGK and the notion that you're inducing bluffs, which is a hard thing to stomach.

fim

TheWorstPlayer · #5 01-29-2005, 06:30 AM

OK. That line sounds pretty good. I will try it in the future. Now let's just see if there was anything I could have done better once I raised preflop. I assume I had to bet the flop? What should I have done once he min-raised?

fimbulwinter · #6 01-29-2005, 06:39 AM

taking it from the flop bet of $2 then?

I actually like the underbet, beacuse it keeps him in with any part of the board. after that i check/call the turn and throw out a blocker on the river of 1/2 what i'm willing to check/call, since he obviously likes to minraise.

the advantage of keeping the pot small early against a lag is that you're going to play (and lose) a lot of pots against a lag in position, no matter how good you are, so keep them small. you only need to win one big pot to make up for many small ones.

fim

TheWorstPlayer · #7 01-29-2005, 06:42 AM

So lead for $2, call min-raise. Check/call turn. Lead for half what I will call on river. I like that. OK, I'll wait now to see what others have to say. Thanks!

vanHelsing · #8 01-29-2005, 06:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and check/call river unless he really turns up the heat on any street

[/ QUOTE ]
Just tried it, he is certified a LAG:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($16.55)
UTG ($68.59)
MP ($61.32)
Hero ($24.75)
SB ($13.54)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $1, MP calls $1, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, UTG calls $2, MP folds.

Flop: ($7.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($17.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $17, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $34.75

now, do I have to call the turn, just because I induced a bluff?

TheWorstPlayer · #9 01-29-2005, 06:58 AM

He suggested just calling the preflop raise, not re-raising. And yes, I think you have to call the turn. You are ahead of almost every hand he could have here.

vanHelsing · #10 01-29-2005, 08:06 AM

Am I misplaying your concept or is it just that I have to live with the risk of getting outdrawn while playing TPGK passively?:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($22.75)
SB ($21.75)
BB ($25)
UTG ($79.45)
MP ($15.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3, SB (poster) calls $2.75, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP folds.

Flop: ($7.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($15.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls $8.

River: ($31.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB calls $6.75 (All-In), Hero calls $6.75.

Final Pot: $45

Results in white below: 
SB has Qs Kd (two pair, kings and queens).
Hero has Jc Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $45.