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View Poll Results: whats the most disgusting habit of your first date?
is badly shaven... 18 31.58%
chews with her mouth open (including having food stuck in her teeth for what seems like hours) 20 35.09%
farts 13 22.81%
Picks her nose 6 10.53%
burps 0 0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:32 PM
Victor Victor is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

its very very button and co dependent. if they are 50/20 then i am chucking a lot of these. if they are 22/17 then i am raising nearly all.
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  #32  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

You're not over-valuing the suitedness. That's correct. In steal situations your cards are often just playing back-up. The actualy theft and folding equity that your raise buys is where most of your profit comes from. Then, when you start playing with your cards most of your profit in limit hold'em comes from your opponent's mistakes. When you hold a strong draw you can push your hand hard by semi-bluffing profitably and giving him the option to make even more mistakes.
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  #33  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:46 PM
Subby Subby is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

I think these polls are interesting not because of the results they give but instead for the discussion they foster.

I would never consider folding JTo from MP and it is interesting to me that folks do that. On the opposite end I will muck K9s from same and not think twice. Interesting to see the whole landscape...
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  #34  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:50 PM
B Dids B Dids is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

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btw dids i think youre wrong about hating these polls. we should all be astute enough to know that most hands arent profitable 100% of the time and most hands arent unprofitable 100% of the time. however, it takes a great amount of skill to really be able to determine when certain hands become more profitable then others and that skill involves alot of understanding of postflop concepts. these polls and preflop guidelines fix alot of preflop problems for good players who lack ability to understand these concepts. in the long run everybody should be trying to develop into a strong enough player to come to their own conclusions but in the meantime these guidelines will make those people alot of money who arent there yet.

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Polls encourage a quick, cursory thought process in response to what are difficult questions. They tend to not provide much content and do give a lot of people the wrong impression about preflop play.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I understand the need for default plays obviously, I guess it's just that like jason mentions, I'm not sure this is a optimal way to talk about it.

Moreover, I think you can have this conversation more generally. For instance, vs. unknowns I tend to have more conservative openning standards. I don't think that really means I'm taking a binary point of view to how I play T9s though.
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  #35  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:53 PM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

[ QUOTE ]
I would never consider folding JTo from MP


[/ QUOTE ]

whether its wrong to fold JTo from MP i dont know, but this is DEFINITELY not optimal.
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  #36  
Old 11-17-2005, 05:58 PM
Wynton Wynton is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would never consider folding JTo from MP


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whether its wrong to fold JTo from MP i dont know, but this is DEFINITELY not optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference between being wrong and not being optimal?
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  #37  
Old 11-17-2005, 06:01 PM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

my point is that it might be right for him to open JTo a big portion of the time, that i dont know. for him to never consider folding it is definitely wrong. if i just quoted what he said and said "this is wrong" then that might imply to some people that im saying he shouldnt be raising JTo from there as a standard. im not saying that.
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  #38  
Old 11-17-2005, 06:11 PM
Subby Subby is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

I can't think of a situation where open-folding JTo from MP would make sense in a short handed game. Maybe I am thinking about this incorrectly.

That's why this thread is so interesting to me. <font color="yellow"> </font>
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  #39  
Old 11-17-2005, 06:31 PM
krishanleong krishanleong is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of a situation where open-folding JTo from MP would make sense in a short handed game. Maybe I am thinking about this incorrectly.

That's why this thread is so interesting to me. <font color="yellow"> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I never openraise JTo from MP. Ever. (I probably should sometimes but I think folding as a default is much better than opening as a default)

There was a thread were BK opened in Hijack in a full ring game and he was told that is incorrect. If it's bad in full ring, it's worse in shorthand.

Krishan
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  #40  
Old 11-17-2005, 06:35 PM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Default Re: Open Raise from MP (Poll)

i dont agree with that krishan. i understand that youre saying its worse to open those hands in a full ring game due to bunching effect, but in full ring games players are not as good in shorthanded situations as they are in 6max games. i also think your success in stealing the blinds rises in full ring games where players are tighter. in shorthanded games these days successfully stealing the blinds is a rare occurence.
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