Pushing a small edge or burning chips?

haakee · #1 07-18-2005, 03:58 PM

So, due to some transportation difficulties I'm not able to play at my usual cardroom, but I got out to slum it at a closer cardroom where the largest game is 15-30. So I got into a game that was a crazy ram-and-jam fest. In this particular hand, UTG is somebody who I saw 3-bet preflop with QJo, on another hand I watched him fire an every-street bluff on a Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop with 53o (no diamond). 6 people had seen the flop, two people called on the turn, and QJ called him on the river to take it down when an offsuit 3 came. He also made some crazy turn raises where he was unable to call a river bet. He's wild. MP is very loose, not sure about his aggression factor.

Anyway, UTG raises. 3 cold-callers including MP, and I call in the BB with 77.

Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Checked to MP who bets. One caller, I call, UTG calls.

Turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] putting 2 clubs on the board. I check. UTG bets, MP raises. LP folds. I 3-bet. UTG 4-bets. MP calls and I cap it at 5 bets thinking I probably have the best hand.

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet out again. UTG raises. MP sighs and cold-calls. I think for a bit and decide to 3-bet. UTG giggles and 4-bets. MP cold-calls. I grumble and call.

highlife · #2 07-18-2005, 04:02 PM

you have better than a small edge here, pump the pot for all its got.

flawless_victory · #3 07-18-2005, 04:04 PM

as i read closer to the end, i thought you were going to ask whether your fivebet on the river was ok.

ShawnHoo · #4 07-18-2005, 04:05 PM

So you're saying UTG goes crazy with nothing, but slowplays top set?

Anyway, the river play seems fine to me.

Entity · #5 07-18-2005, 04:05 PM

I'd put in the 5th bet here. 65s, backdoor [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] draws. The only way I expect you to be beaten is with MP holding 33 and UTG holding TT.

Rob

Kovner · #6 07-18-2005, 04:13 PM

Yeah - I'm confused here. Sevens full with two guys coming along and you don't cap it? From your read, it is not impossible for UTG to have some wacky tens full hand, but your read should also tell you UTG could have a whole bunch of hands you can beat.
It's pretty clear that you have the best hand here over 50% of the time, so even if it was heads up, capping is profitable. But, here, you have a guy trapped in between who is almost sure to call the 5th bet if you cap. That means the break even point for raising is you having the best hand 1/3rd of the time.

adanthar · #7 07-18-2005, 04:13 PM

A better question would be why you didn't cap every street against a maniac and some guy who likes his hand enough to bet it.

Mackie · #8 07-18-2005, 04:29 PM

I think you played the hand correctly. 3-betting the river seems obvious. The only question is should you cap the river? I'm guessing UTG has fours full or tens full. Even maniacs don't keep raising on the river when they know they will be called. Maybe the correct play EV wise is to cap, but I don't blame you for just calling, I probably would have too.

Kovner · #9 07-18-2005, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing UTG has fours full or tens full. Even maniacs don't keep raising on the river when they know they will be called.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but moronic maniacs will 4-bet with trips or a flush here. Sometimes its hard to imagine how bad some players are, but decent or better players have the ability to adjust the strength of their hand in the face of new information, bad players don't. They think "3 of a kind? Time to get as much money in here as possible"

Analyst · #10 07-18-2005, 05:38 PM

It seems like MP has to have a ten, say A-J/T - it's hard to come up with other hands that explain his play. An overpair would've 3-bet pf, and his turn action doesn't make sense for 99/88 or something like A7 (or, frankly, with most of the 10s but it's more plausible than any other hand I can think of). So you're clearly ahead of him, and he may well account for one of the missing 10s.

So if one of the 10s is gone, it's much less likely that UTG has one. You'd think he'd have bet/raised the flop with T7 (only 1-2 possibilities) and T3. T4, well, that could be a problem but it seems more likely that he's getting his giggles with something like 44, Ax[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or even 56. I'd 5-bet.