Did I Miss a Couple of Big Bets?

[Baltimore Ron]

The Scene: Two 15-30 tables on Party Poker last night. Games are a bit loose and not too aggressive (some pf raising with cold callers, but not much reraising.)

The Problem: If it is true that the key to HE is making the most of numerous small edges, I'm wondering if I'm leaving money on the table. These two hands are somewhat typical of my river play.

Hand #1: I was dealt A5spades in the small blind. After two early limpers and a mid position raiser, I liked my almost 6-1 odds (assuming the limpers are calling) and called the $20. The big blind folded and the limpers called.

The flop was a J with two fives in what would have been a beautiful rainbow hue if we had been playing a four-color deck. Representing a J, I bet out right away. The first limper folded, the second limper raised and the pf raiser folded - we are now heads up. I reraised and he capped. At this point I'm sure he has a five, JJ would have most likely been raised pre-flop. I'm planning to check call the turn and bet out the river, hoping he'll raise me on the river.

The turn was an 8 or 9 - not likely that he's filled up yet. I check called.

The river was a 6. Hmmmm...56suited would surely be a limping hand in this game. I checked and called.

Should I have put in more bets on either the turn or the river?

Hand 2: I was dealt JJ with one club in mid position and open raised. Only the utg limper called. We're now heads up.

The flop was a Q and two 9's with two clubs. He check called my bet and we saw a turn of the Ace of clubs. We both checked.

The river was another club (6, I think). He bet and I just called with the second nut flush on a paired board.

Should I have bet out on the turn with my ok pair and the second nut flush draw? Alternatively, should I have raised the river?

BR

[RyanR]

Considering I read all of these posts I figured I'd take a shot at responding to one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hand 1:
You have a good read on your opponent here, why not checkraise the turn?
If you get three-bet, you can slow down but if he just calls you have a pretty clear value bet on the river.

Hand 2:
You've got position on him and should assume you're ahead until he shows you otherwise; bet on the turn...if he checkraises, you have enough outs to call. On the river call if he bets and bet if checked to.

Hope I helped a little?
Ryan

[Inthacup]

Hand 1: I would check-raise the turn almost every time. It's very unlikely that he has JJ given his preflop limp. He could be overplaying a J, a worse 5 or even a flush draw. In any case, I'm check-raising.

Hand 2: Bet the turn.

[glen]

hand 1: If someone doesn't think you would play a 5 that fast, they will very likely cap the flop KJ or AJ. You need to check-raise the turn here, and the thinking when the 6 hit, "The river was a 6. Hmmmm...56suited would surely be a limping hand in this game. I checked and called." yuck. Check-raise anyways and call a 3 bet. The river check-raise should seem odd in the context of the hand for obvious reasons anyways so that you will get paid off by worse hands . . .

Hand 2: Bet the turn. Like you said, you have the second nut draw, and the flop was check-call. . .

[Bubmack]

Hand #1 - Yes 5,6 is a limping hand in this situation. But so are JT, QJ, J,9, 4,5s and others (many others if he plays too many hands). So given that range of hands - you should be getting a raise in there somewhere. If you missed the raise on the turn - you are still well in the clear to get the extra bet on the river.

[karlson]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm planning to check call the turn and bet out the river, hoping he'll raise me on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've almost never seen this move work. For some reason, players tend to be scared when you make this play, and won't raise you without a huge hand. I think he's more likely to 3-bet your checkraise on the turn, and I'd probably make it four bets.

[elysium]

hi ron
hand 1) bet out on the turn and put in a 3-bet. you can't be putzing around here ron. you have the winner, so bet it like a winner.

hand 2) you allowed the nut flush draw the free-card on the turn. a bet may have gotten the fold.

[ActionBob]

Hand 1: Why try to get so tricky on the turn? I see no reason for it here. You are much better off being straightforward and bet out. Hopefully he'll raise you, then you can put in 3 bets. The other problem with your plan is if something even relatively scary comes on the river like a possible straight you might even get some guy with a hand like Q5s to all the sudden think you made some kind of big hand and he now decides to just call. The other possibility is what happened where you (for no reason IMO) all the sudden think you're behind. So now you've got a hand where you may have gotten numerous big bets out of on the turn, to only get in one bet on the turn and one on the river. IMO, playing these kind of hands straightforward against relatively weak opponents (like the typical Party 15-30 games) will make you MUCH more in the long run.

-ActionBob