Hold 'em with no position?

[SycoFrogg]

Ok, I got invited to this home game tonight with a few friends who want to start playing once a week and the thing is they don't know how to play! I mean at all, they dont have a concept of anything a two year old wouldn't know. My friends famous line is "You always gotta see the flop." It's an incredibly weak game and untill a few minutes ago my strategy was to stay utterly tight, bluffs are probably impossible and bet big when im sure I have the best hand. Anyways theres a slight problem. The way they play completly eliminates position. They know they play wrong and claim they enjoy it, so who am I to change that? They play the aggressor bets first no matter what. It's like being punished for raising. In late position and the guy next to you raises? Your now BB or UTG. I was wondering if there is any possible startegy for this sort of tournament play. The cash is somewhat sweet to give on such weak players with a full table and a 125 buy-in.

I was wondering if I simply shouldnt raises at all that way im actually never first to act after flop or simply make the whole game a preflop game, raising heavily with anything decent being preflop is the only point position does matter. (There is a button which moves it's just if someone raises they now act first again.) Any suggstions?

Oh god, I know. It's annoying. I've won some alright money over the last few years playing on-line so I always get challenged at a party or small get together.

It goes something like this...

"You play poker? $#!% man, I didn't know anybody played poker up in here."

At this point, you would note that every living/dining closet in america has poker set in it so...

"$#!% Dog, we got some poker chips right here dog! Who's gonna deal em out!?"

Now right about here you might hear somebody say the word "action". That's when I go grab another drink. There is nothing worse than hearing...

"Ohhhhhh buddy! I didn't think I'd see any action at the card table tonight, Yeah baby! We got some poker goin on tonight!"

The best part, is when you finally sit down at the table. Nobody knows what the [censored] is going on. Don't even say the word "blind". Just don't even try it. I've learned that you just let the dominat person at the table run the show a bit.

Usually I gotta say a few things when it comes to buying in. Did you ever notice NOBODY wants to buy-in into a common pool? It's always, "No dude, just remember that I'm in for 30." 10 minutes later 5 people are playing and there's no money on the table. Oh well, go get another drink because the next 10 are going to be spent discussing chip denominations.

Anyways, after a few hands, there will be so much confusion that there might even be someone begging for some stability. You then mention that we need to fix how the antes work (don't say blinds!) Tell them that the pros on TV use just two antes next to the dealer.

You should then hear something like,

"Yeah yeah! On TV they do blinds or something. Cause of strategee or some $#!%."

Just nod and tell them how the antes work. Don't do a big or small blind, just 2 antes left of the dealer.

As time goes on you can slowly get the game to look like real texas hold'em. The only thing you have to do is convince one person at the table that they are the next TV poker pro and they'll convince everyone else that you gotta do it like the pros... so there can be some "stratagee" involved.

Good luck....

Are you playing limit, or no limit?
I can only address no limit play. In my college days(not so recently) I played in games like these. Play as tight as humanly possible, if you have a big hand, bet preflop, get the money in while you can, then punish them on the later streets as well. Make them pay to make mistakes. Occasionally, in late position, limp in with garbage like they do so that when the flop comes out, someone raises and everyone folds, you can fold the hand up and say, "gotta see the flop" so they THINK you're playing like them, but then go back to tight. Otherwise, they'll catch on that your raises preflop indicate a lot of strength. Sometimes, when you limp in with those goofball hands, you flop a monster and you can even show down a winning hand with garbage. Just remember, when you limp in with horrible hands for the purpose of advertising, don't get too attached to the hand. Don't be tempted to play like them, you're just doing it so they think you're one of them. Only then will they pay off your good hands. For limit play, I think you need to read Small Stakes Hold em. Someone else will address that though.

[SycoFrogg]

It's no limit and my question still stands, is there any type of strategy to use in a game where position virtually means nothing post flop. So far im going to stick with my decision on making my entire game on preflop play. Tight early and looser as the blinds move up, limp in when I can and stay away from raising on 3 or more person pots. I guess I'll just see what happens.

[Tilt]

Against truly terrible players in a live game, position matters very little in my opinion. Sure, its worth something, but you should be able to beat them badly even if you are the SB every hand. Because half the time they will call you down with garbage, and the other half they will fold on the river for one bet. And they will have so many tells it will be like their cards are face up.

[SycoFrogg]

I feel the same way. I've decided to limp in with most of my hands and allow them to bet into me, in most cases that'll probably put me in the best position anyways. With a monster the river is where to hammer em.

your best option is to make sure the blinds are small enough to give you play.
See a ton of flops, and look for monsters or monster draws.
You will get paid off when you make, and don't have to spend too much getting there.

[RedeemerKing]

depends on how aggresive they are with regards to betting. If they bet big....trap them in 2 or 3 hands all night. Play tight and play only big hands in big pots. If they bet passively then limp often and play mediocre hands, and give your skill a chance to work. If they are passive, the more pots you are in the more mistakes they make, and they more chances you give yourself to capitalzie on these mistakes. You really cant get hurt in these small pots, but if u win enough of them they add up. Assuming you dont get crazy with these mediocre hands and lose like 15 in a row I think this would be the best strategy. If ur playing tight tho.....do what previous poster said.....do something to convince them your are not playing tight....even tho u are.

GL

What do you mean "is there any type of strategy to use in a game where position virtually means nothing post flop"? Position always means something, if you're on the button, you're still last to act, right? If you're last to act, so what if there are already three limpers, if you have a hand, make them make a mistake, raise the size of the pot. If they call, it's not the end of the world if your hand figures to be the best. If you're constantly worried about them making the nuts on you, you really shouldn't be playing to begin with.

It sounds like in this style of game, the player who raised would keep betting until re-raised. This means no free card / free showdown plays for you. But slowplaying would probably work better. Also you can do moves like calling a raise on the flop and then raising the turn, without ever having to check the turn. This is good for you when you are not the raiser. You ALWAYS have position on the raiser! The problem is that whenever you raise you are OOP on the following street. You can probably c/r more often because of this ("He checks now? He must have been bluffing the last street! I go all-in!"). It's also easier to protect your hand.