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  #1  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:44 PM
Acesover8s Acesover8s is offline
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Default How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

How much action do I need to give a casino at blackjack and other games in order to get a decent level of comp? I'd like to move past the level of free pig trough buffet and into the world of RFB and beyond without losing my ass.

Is blackjack the best game for this? What about other low-risk alternatives like craps, baccarat, and paigow?

What casinos comp the best?
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2005, 05:01 PM
RedeemerKing RedeemerKing is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

I am very interested in the same thing, but have some other questions.

1- is it better to play all in 1 casino or spread it out?
2- is it better to go down often and play awhile, or go down once in a while and put in more massive session.
3- Are there any tips to get more comps. Like buying in for two grand and only betting 25 a hand....does stuff like that work.

Any input appreciated
Thx
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:36 AM
Terry Terry is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

Most casinos will tell you straight out what their comp policy is if you ask. A typical deal for a typical player in a typical joint would be for them to comp 40% of theoretical expectation based on a typical loss of 1 average bet per hour, e.g., if you have a $100 average bet they will comp you at a rate of $40/hour of play.

Basically, you aren’t going to get RFB without black chip play unless you’re in a small, out of the way joint. Many, if not most, places count Pai Gow Poker for ½ the rate of “real” games.

Trying to diddle them by making big buy-ins and not betting the money won’t work – you get rated for action, not buy-ins.

Trying to fool the floorman by betting bigger when he is watching could piss him off and get you rated at a really low average bet and get you noted as a mooch. Forget about betting Pass and Don’t Pass on Craps or red and black at Roulette – that stuff just makes you look foolish. The casino staff may not be brilliant, but they really hate it when people act as if they were idiots.

Bottom line: If you want serious comps you gotta put money in action. They count on you steaming and busting out. Basic strategy BJ might work in some places, others will severely limit comps if they know you know how to play. Baccarat is fine if you don’t steam ... Craps too, but don’t expect your odds bets to contribute to your rating.
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Old 04-28-2005, 11:18 AM
Acesover8s Acesover8s is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

Thanks Terry, this is the kind of answer I'm looking for. However, is this true:

[ QUOTE ]
Most casinos will tell you straight out what their comp policy is if you ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

On my recent trip to Tunica I asked at a couple places and both told me that they could not tell me what the policy was, just to play a while and come back and ask then, which certainly did not encourage me to play at that casino. Is it different in vegas?

How does bet size spread affect the equation?
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:45 PM
Terry Terry is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

Well, that’s why I said “most” casinos will tell you. My experience is all in Las Vegas. Keep in mind that it depends also on who you talk to ... the floor people might not even know, but some of them will give you an answer anyway. The most likely to give you a straight answer will be the Shift Boss or a host.

You average bet is determined by the floor person watching your game. Some will be more accurate than others, depending on their actual ability and on how many games they are assigned to watch ... spreading bets certainly makes it more difficult for them to make an accurate judgement but over the course of a few days you can expect the average to be fairly accurate.

You can ask the floor person what he put as your average bet when he fills out your rating card but I don’t recommend it. When people asked me, I automatically categorized them as mooches and adjusted their rating accordingly.

Best advice if you are betting an amount that is at all meaningful to the casino you are in is to ask to talk to a host. It is their job to try to keep you happy and many will go to great lengths to do so since they get paid a percentage of your action.

Keep in mind, too, that your bet size relative to the bulk of the other players makes a difference. If you are a $50 player in a casino with mostly $5 to $10 grinders and $30 rooms you may get that RFB and all the attention you can stand, but if the place is full of green and black chip action the $50 bettor will be just another face in the crowd.
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2005, 12:47 PM
KingMedicine KingMedicine is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

[ QUOTE ]

Is blackjack the best game for this? What about other low-risk alternatives like craps, baccarat, and paigow?

What casinos comp the best?

[/ QUOTE ]

video poker is great for earning comps and can be EV+ in certain circumstances to boot.

One thing to keep in mind:

Play at a casino that is part of a group of casinos. For instance, im comped out the ass at all the Mandalay Bay Properties - which include Mandalay Bay, Excalibur, Luxor (i believe) and some others in Vegas and other cities in the US. I've put very little money into the vegas casinos. The reason im comped there is because i play(ed) a TON of video poker at Circus Circus Reno, which is owned by Mandalay Bay Properties. All the properties' slot clubs (which is how they track Video Poker play) are linked. So i play at CC Reno and get free rooms at Excalibur and Mandalay Bay. Once you get to a certain level, you'll need to hook up with a casino host. I have one at CC Reno and an awesome one at Excalibur. I email them and tell them which nights ill be there and they set up the room (typically suites unless i state i dont need anything that nice) and comp my food and drinks for the trip. No having to deal with reservation people and having to give them your credit card number and all that jazz. One email and its taken care of.

feel free to PM me if you want more info of this nature.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2005, 02:08 AM
PizzaBoyPetey PizzaBoyPetey is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

I get comped a lot. It is so nice to have two free rooms and take five people to a great restaurant for free. And then throw the waitress a huge tip...... But one should never enter a casino with the goal of getting comps. You should be trying to win a reasonable or unreasonable amount and getting the money home. Sometimes I use the comp like a bell going off......comp...ding...... ok now I must put away my stake and 80 percent of my win and then use the comp..... otherwise you could end up paying $ 6,000.00 for dinner. Just be serious about winning and running, that is my whole point....
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2005, 04:30 AM
ToledoTommy ToledoTommy is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

All of the advice already posted has been on the mark. I would suggest calling various hotels and talking to casino services for more info. Max Rubin recommends this in his Comp City books.

My local casino is owned by Caesars Entertainment and when I go out west I stay at the Paris where I have a great casino host. I never thought my play was high enough to get a host's attention but she introduced herself to me last year and it's a great thing. Reservations taken care of, limo service, meals, etc. I don't consider myself a high roller by any stretch but I definitely put my time in.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2005, 12:52 PM
Bubbagump Bubbagump is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

[ QUOTE ]
How much action do I need to give a casino at blackjack and other games in order to get a decent level of comp? I'd like to move past the level of free pig trough buffet and into the world of RFB and beyond without losing my ass.

Is blackjack the best game for this? What about other low-risk alternatives like craps, baccarat, and paigow?

What casinos comp the best?

[/ QUOTE ]

/Grunching

A lot depends on which Casino you intend to play at. I have no idea how much it would take at the high end places on the strip but I wuold have to guess that if you not playing $100 a hand your not even in the ball park.

That said, If you are willing to lower your standards a little, you can probably get RFB's at some of the smaller places on the strip cheaper. I think the Stardust had a web page a few years ago that listed in really good detail what kind of action they would need in order to provide certain services RFB, limos etc.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2005, 03:53 PM
Wintermute Wintermute is offline
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Default Re: How much action do I need to give? (crosspost)

Here's a recipe for how to get RFB+ treatment at the Boardwalk, speaking from personal experience:

1) Start off by bringing $5k to Vegas, and carrying it around with you everywhere so it begins to burn a hole in your pocket.

2) Start drinking double rum-n-cokes EARLY.

3) Run through about 8 $100 buyins in a weak NLHE game when you achieve appropriate drunkeness level.

4) Continue drinking double rum-n-cokes.

5) Go back to the Boardwalk, where you are staying, for some $5 craps.

6) Make a complete ass out of yourself with your friends as you yell at the top of your lungs on every roll. Lose a couple hundo here over the course of an hour of frequent, stiff drinks.

7) Slide into a seat at an empty BJ table. Begin with $25 bets. Lose consistently, and make a point of insulting the dealer every time you lose. Even go so far as to insult dealers at other games who keep giving you the eye because you are shouting these horrific insults at top volume. This is important--you want to leave a searing image of yourself in the pit boss's memory... more to come on that. Keep ordering double rum-n-cokes, but begin to complain that they aren't strong enough. Suggest to the CTW that she bring you a glass of rum and a can of coke, that you'll fix the drink yourself.

8) When you sense that the hazy blackoutishness is beginning, step your bet up to $500-600. 15 minutes later, storm back to your room demanding to know who stole your other $4000 in a fit of drunken rage.

9) Pass out.

10) When you wake up (following morning), check with the player's club to find out how many comp dollars you racked up during the fit of badassery yesterday. Be really surprised when they tell you, "$20".

11) Instruct them that you lost over $4k to their sh!tty casino, and you'll be damned if you're going to only get $20 back in comps. They'll direct you to the pit boss. This is important: BE SURE TO TALK TO THE PIT BOSS WHO WAS ON DUTY WHEN YOU WERE DRUNK BLOWING OFF ALL THAT CASH.

12) He will know you by name. The dealers will all be shooting you glares. The pit boss will tell you that you only earned $20 in comps because you were betting high for only 15 minutes. However, since you are a "fast player" he will eventually set up a meeting between you and the casino host.

13) You and your friends will go have lunch on the house while the casino host comes from home (where the pit boss contacted her) to meet you.

14) Casino host will comp your room, give you & friends multiple bottles of high-quality liqour, set up a comped limo ride to the airport later that evening, hook you all up with awesome/ridiculous Boardwalk windbreakers, and basically imply that future visits will operate in similar fashion.

15) You will feel pretty studly, but with a tinge of fear due to the sense that you are being roped into a very unhealthy lifestyle.

Any questions?
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