Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > General Poker Discussion > Poker Theory
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2005, 06:51 PM
RedeemerKing RedeemerKing is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 70
Default Raising 2nd best hand

I know this strategy could be very helpful in winning. But if u know you are beat by 1 opponent who isnt goin to fold...why raise? I think it has to do raising to narrow the field to improve your odds. But if u know u need to suckout to win dont u want some callers to increase the pot size.
Can someone gimme an example of this strategy in practice. And how valuable/useful is it at the 2-4$ to 5-10$ small stakes limit
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-25-2005, 01:19 PM
AaronBrown AaronBrown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 505
Default Re: Raising 2nd best hand

There are three main reasons to raise in Poker.

The first is to get more money in the pot. Generally you do that when you think you have the best hand, but it could make sense in this situation. Suppose the best hand has a 50% chance of winning, you have 40% and another hand has 10%. If you think both players will call your raise, it has positive expected value for you.

The second reason to raise is to make others fold. You say in this case the best hand won't fold, but it can still be worth it to make some other hand fold. Say you have a flush draw, the best hand has a set you cannot beat except with the flush, and a third hand has a higher flush draw than you. Say if you call, there will be $100 in the pot, and three players. You can't win that, it's worthless to you. Say if you raise $20 there will be $140 in the pot with two players, and you have a 35% chance of winning. You bought $49 of pot equity for $20 (ignoring bets on the next rounds).

The final reason is deception. If you raise to suggest you have a top pair when in fact you have a flush draw you (a) might win more money if you make your flush because the other players will figure you for two pair or a set and (b) might be able to bluff people out if you don't make your flush. Of course, this costs money to try and doesn't always work (or we'd all be rich).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2005, 04:30 PM
RiverDood RiverDood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 113
Default Re: Raising 2nd best hand

Aaron's got all the key strategic concepts.

Now here's a simple example. Assume the suits are rainbow and no one has a flush draw. Everyone has limped/called to see the flop, and the betting will be in this order.

Stooge No. 1 (BB): K5
Villain (UTG): 9A
You (CO): 78
Stooge No. 2 (Button): JQ

FLOP: 689

Stooge No. 1 checks. Villain, acting next, has top pair and bets the flop. You've got middle pair and an OESD. So if you can make this heads up against Villain, you've got 12 outs to improve. (Any of three 5s; any of three 7s; any of two eights; any of four 10s.) That's well worth playing on with. But to get there, you've GOT TO RAISE.

Suppose instead that you just call Villain's flop bet. The other two players now have favorable odds to call, too. And now where are you??

Your three 7s are no good anymore, because they make a straight for Stooge No. 2. Your four Ts are no good, because they make a better straight for Stooge No. 1.

There's more bad news. If a J, Q or K hits on the turn, you're now behind two players. No more call/check behind that lets you see the river for one more bet. Now it's almost certain there will be two bets on the turn -- making it harder for you to stay till the river.

All told, limping costs you lost seven of your outs directly, as well as the ability to check/call the turn and see the river cheaply.

Yes, you're still behind either way. But with the flop raise, you've more than doubled your outs and made it possible to see the river very affordably. Play this situation often enough, and you'll make money at it consistently.

If you don't raise, your outs are cut in half and you stand a very good chance of being bullied out of the hand on the turn. You're stuck in a losing hand.

Obviously, not every second-best hand can be polished up quite this much with a raise. But it's amazing how often at least some of these concepts apply.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2005, 05:19 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Raising 2nd best hand

Another positive is when you see a flop such as 789 and you hold A-10...

Let's say you are against AK and he bets the flop. We'll assume he either raised behind you pre-flop and/or limped preflop.

By raising him (even though you are behind), it will be very hard for players behind you with weak hands or one pair no-kickie to call + barring an A or K on the turn... AK will probably move to check and fold strategy.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.