KK 10/20

SmileyEH · #1 07-12-2005, 01:25 AM

Villian in the hand is 30/4 over 70 hands, with agg. numbers around 2. Is this ridiculously standard?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

-SmileyEH

Argus · #2 07-12-2005, 02:09 AM

I think this is an unfortunate call down. You have to put in 2.5 more BB to win 7.25 BB. I think you are good at least a third of the time and villain could be getting frisky hoping the flop missed you and he can push you off. The river bet scares me a little because if a thinking player makes it he has to be thinking about what hands will call his bet, and KK is certainly in the range. But even if villain was very sharp and you knew he wouldn't bet a hand likely to be beaten by your range of holdings, at this point the likelihood of a river bluff following up a semi-bluffed draw that missed dictates a call. So calling down is probably slightly +EV, and raising anywhere seems foolish since you'd rather worse hands keep at you. Can anyone make an argument for a turn raise for free showdown?

Jeff W · #3 07-12-2005, 02:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The river bet scares me a little because if a thinking player makes it he has to be thinking about what hands will call his bet, and KK is certainly in the range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see no indication that villain is a thinking player.

damaniac · #4 07-12-2005, 02:14 AM

The only reason to raise the turn is if he's likely to have JT or two diamonds and would pay another bet on the turn but not on the river if he misses. Those times need to be weighed against the times he either folds a hand that is drawing nearly dead or 3-bets us with a worse hand (since if he 3-bets us with a Q and we fold it costs us the same as calling down and seeing it at showdown, although it does cost us a chance at our 2-outer on the river). I'm mainly concerned with the first of those, that he'll have something like JJ/TT/A9/AK often enough that I don't really want him folding any of those hands given the pot size, certainly far more likely than he'll have a diamond draw (very unlikely given the flop action) or JT (not horribly likely given the player's stats and action either).

oreogod · #5 07-12-2005, 02:17 AM

Yeah, usually once he bets that river, thats where I still call, but usually give up hope. He has to be thinking u have some kind of good hand to call him down.

I dont think you can fold this any where, right? You are probably beat, but I can see other hands following through on the river. He's loose and decently aggressive. Preflop agro stat sucks though.

Argus · #6 07-12-2005, 02:26 AM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
The river bet scares me a little because if a thinking player makes it he has to be thinking about what hands will call his bet, and KK is certainly in the range.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see no indication that villain is a thinking player.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't either. I mention it mainly for completeness, and to emphasise that calling down is correct. I want other players to understand the thought process for evaluating similar situations.

Evan · #7 07-12-2005, 07:25 AM

Why the [censored] is the discussion here between calling and folding rather than calling and raising?

brettbrettr · #8 07-12-2005, 08:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why the [censored] is the discussion here between calling and folding rather than calling and raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

Think a 9 pays off?

sfer · #9 07-12-2005, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why the [censored] is the discussion here between calling and folding rather than calling and raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

toss · #10 07-12-2005, 12:23 PM

I find it odd that villain would checkraise the flop with trips Qs. Don't think its third level thinking. Will villain pay off with a 9? Sure, donks play 10/20 too.