Fear of success

[MyssGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, fear of success is a very real situation - but it is VERY closely related to the fear of failure.

For many people, success means pressure - if they do well or win at poker or get a great job, then immediately, it can create anxiety - what if I lose this job? What if I lose all my winnings? etc.

So what these people will do is they will protect themselves from those potential failures by sabotaging their chances to be successful. That way, they can stay in the same situation they are in - one that is likely very comfortable for them, even if they are miserable - because at least this is misery that they understand and know they can deal with.

Thus, fear of success is closely linked to fear of failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nicely put. I was about to post about a similar subject. I have been running hot for the past month. Basically winning at a rate that I haven't been able to sustain for very long.

But the problem/issue is this, I have started to play short sessions and become more results oriented. Meaning if I win quickly, I'll stop. If my bb/100 is above (more likely greatly above as to make of for negative sessions) a set line, I'll quit. The game may be juicy and players have deep pockets, but I'll "hit and run". I get a win. Increase my BB/100. Feel good, but....I don't feel that I'm improving or doing all I could. I should play more hours, but I fear losing that win. Lowering my BB/100, etc.

Fear of success is, in my mind, fear of living up to my potential and succeeding at the level I believe that I could. By getting the hit and runs, I don't put myself in too much jeopardy. On the flip side, I'll play longer hours to get back to even. Luckily, I have been able to recently.

Don't know exactly where this is going. I'm just trying to learn how to "deal with success" without screwing it up and to keep improving. I've been through the "I'm better than them", "how could you call that bet, do you know who I am", "my name is Phil Hellmuth" stages, etc that I've avoided that particular fear of success. It's the fear that I'm going to screw up my hot streak that I don't take advantage of the opportunities in front of me....

[JobyWan]

A couple random bit of verbal diarrhea:

Fear of success is really a fear of maintenance of success. I suffer from it and solve it by not moving up in levels and constantly withdrawing money from my poker account. If I'm playing 200 NL, I keep around $1,000 in my account and squirrel away all the rest in the bank. That way I'm always a few buy ins from going broke which keeps me on my toes and limits any major tilt sessions (or allows for tilt and infuses the necessary drama for you). I usually go broke twice a month and re-seed a small amount and start over. My game is the type that has many medium wins and one or two huge losses, so having a limited bankroll available helps curb the huge losses. Your game may be different, especially if you play limit and are more susceptable to card based variances. So it might not be as relevant. If the sabotage comes when you're doing well, then by keeping just a couple buy ins available, you're never really doing that well..always fighting for your life.

2) Success is relative to failure. I always say that the biggest barrier to being rich is knowing what it is to be rich. You see it every time a low income person wins 100 million dollars in the lottery and goes out and buys a new mustang, thinking it's the best car in the world. Many of the 'upbringing' points that were made in the responses fit here.

3) Maybe drama is your success. Maybe you feel best when you're coming and going..high to low ... low to high. Half the battle is getting there, etc etc.

4) Sucess makes people face themselves. Once you've achieved all your goals..then what? You can start thinking about dying. The struggle towards some goal is vital escapism for many many people. Once you don't have a struggle to be caught up in, there's a void that needs filled with something.

Wipe wipe..all done,
JobyWan

[Dan Mezick]

Hey, this really caught my attention.

Might you please elaborate in detail on this concept? The original poster likely posted to hear exactly what you have to say.

[baumer]

in regards to success and failure

best post ever

(at least it is my favourite)

also i found this article while googling for annihilation of self.

Interesting take on Fight Club

[TStoneMBD]

this is exactly what i mean. you have a fear of failure. you dont have a fear of success. maybe it is me that really doesnt understand the definitions of these terms, but i believe that many people confuse the two which is what you have done here in my opinion.

[Dan Mezick]

Thank you for posting these links.

There is a framework you can discover, within which repetitive drama in your life plays out.


It's usually about judging your feelings.

These judgement blocks a true experience of the feelings, which is the actual issue at the root of the dramatic episodes. Getting the experience of the feelings gets you insight. Blocking (judging) gets you drama.


I read about a guy who always "capped" his earnings from a very difficult poker-like activity he was actually very good at.

It turns out he equated success with money with someone from his earlier life, who he did not want to be like. In his view, "over X per year" = "just like Mr. Evil from my past."

So, when he reached a certain self-imposed ceiling income he equated as being "just under" success-with-money, he would, quite inconsciously, self-sabotage any success with money generation above that level. He blocked the experience of feeling "evil" by limiting his income.

This made him an OK person, since any amount earned over the self-imposed ceiling made him (in his view) exactly like the "evil" person he absolutely "didnt want to be like".

Once he figured that out, felt the feeling of being like the "evil" person, and got the insight from that, he made unlimited amounts. He got clear. Making incredible amounts in the activity was, after all, his real gift (innate talent) in the first place.

This is just one example.

Shall I keep going?

[ QUOTE ]
this is exactly what i mean. you have a fear of failure. you dont have a fear of success. maybe it is me that really doesnt understand the definitions of these terms, but i believe that many people confuse the two which is what you have done here in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, somewhat.

Although in both cases, what is ultimately feared is failure, the fear manifests itself in different ways.

A person with a fear of failure may push themselves very hard to succeed as a way of dealing with that fear - they may try to control their situation, use manipulation to secure their position, etc...

A person with a fear of success will avoid situations that put them in a position to fail - they will avoid possible success because of the fear of failure.

Two sides of the same coin.

[Shaman]

Yes, it all comes down to beliefs. In your example:

"over X per year" = "just like Mr. Evil from my past."

is a belief. Beliefs are complex equivalences (A equals B, A means B) or cause and effects (A causes B, "If A then B). Beliefs (aka, complex equivalences and cause and effects) are self fulfilling prophecies. They are like thermostats. Once you set your thermostat at 78 degrees, this temperature becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as far as the temperature in your room goes.

Same with money. Here's great article about money and beliefs that explains self sabotage - that is, tendencies for people to "self destruct" once they get their bankrolls up to a certain level.

[Dan Mezick]

That's a great link.

For those interested in beliefs, specifically, why it is important to notice the ones you work from and to be willing to change them, see this post by Sklansky over in the "Sklanksy Forum" entitled You CAN Change Your Axoims

This post of his is so great and hits such a key topic, it's kind of a joke that people are not growing that thread!!

Note: He calls them 'axioms' as he will.

[Shaman]

Thanks for the link. So far, I have read Sklansky's original post as well as your response. It is an excellent thread that Sklansky had to bump!

Here are some links to some specifics of axiom and belief change. Simply click on the entries that are preceded by the word "beliefs".