Fear of success

[judgesmails]

There are times in my life where if things are going really well, I do something to sabotage it. Nothing really drastic or truly self-destructive - but something just enough to add drama or ensure that I will not have an easy time.

This carries over into poker sometimes. If I am having a good session, or good week, I will play sloppy for a while and will tend to bluff too frequently. If I have a big chip lead in a tourney I will overplay my big stack.

I think this tendency has something to do with a fear of success – at least success how it is commonly seen. I am not sure if I have a serious problem with this, because I think I fear failure more. But I think this is holding me back, not just in poker.

Where do these feelings come from and how can I stop them from creeping into my actions?

[TStoneMBD]

i never really understood it when people say they have a fear of success, nor do i really believe in it for the most part. it doesnt make sense to me. the only times when fear of success makes logical sense despite it being illogical of course is if the person is afraid that success might have others pressure him into working harder or maintaining more success. a better description of this fear in my opinion is fear of pressure.

i doubt thats the case here.

youre probably afraid of failure, but that doesnt seem appropriate here since you often tilt away a big stack in a tournament. maybe you are afraid of failure so you intentionally blow your tournament life just so that way you can say "eh i dont care anyway."

bottom line is that these posts on the psychology forum bother me. you get all these replies from people trying to be helpful giving candy advice. in truth, the best advice someone could give you about your problem here is to just stop playing like a retard. its a choice you make. you either tilt or you dont.

Actually, fear of success is a very real situation - but it is VERY closely related to the fear of failure.

For many people, success means pressure - if they do well or win at poker or get a great job, then immediately, it can create anxiety - what if I lose this job? What if I lose all my winnings? etc.

So what these people will do is they will protect themselves from those potential failures by sabotaging their chances to be successful. That way, they can stay in the same situation they are in - one that is likely very comfortable for them, even if they are miserable - because at least this is misery that they understand and know they can deal with.

Thus, fear of success is closely linked to fear of failure.

[MyssGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, fear of success is a very real situation - but it is VERY closely related to the fear of failure.

For many people, success means pressure - if they do well or win at poker or get a great job, then immediately, it can create anxiety - what if I lose this job? What if I lose all my winnings? etc.

So what these people will do is they will protect themselves from those potential failures by sabotaging their chances to be successful. That way, they can stay in the same situation they are in - one that is likely very comfortable for them, even if they are miserable - because at least this is misery that they understand and know they can deal with.

Thus, fear of success is closely linked to fear of failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nicely put. I was about to post about a similar subject. I have been running hot for the past month. Basically winning at a rate that I haven't been able to sustain for very long.

But the problem/issue is this, I have started to play short sessions and become more results oriented. Meaning if I win quickly, I'll stop. If my bb/100 is above (more likely greatly above as to make of for negative sessions) a set line, I'll quit. The game may be juicy and players have deep pockets, but I'll "hit and run". I get a win. Increase my BB/100. Feel good, but....I don't feel that I'm improving or doing all I could. I should play more hours, but I fear losing that win. Lowering my BB/100, etc.

Fear of success is, in my mind, fear of living up to my potential and succeeding at the level I believe that I could. By getting the hit and runs, I don't put myself in too much jeopardy. On the flip side, I'll play longer hours to get back to even. Luckily, I have been able to recently.

Don't know exactly where this is going. I'm just trying to learn how to "deal with success" without screwing it up and to keep improving. I've been through the "I'm better than them", "how could you call that bet, do you know who I am", "my name is Phil Hellmuth" stages, etc that I've avoided that particular fear of success. It's the fear that I'm going to screw up my hot streak that I don't take advantage of the opportunities in front of me....

[TStoneMBD]

this is exactly what i mean. you have a fear of failure. you dont have a fear of success. maybe it is me that really doesnt understand the definitions of these terms, but i believe that many people confuse the two which is what you have done here in my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
this is exactly what i mean. you have a fear of failure. you dont have a fear of success. maybe it is me that really doesnt understand the definitions of these terms, but i believe that many people confuse the two which is what you have done here in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, somewhat.

Although in both cases, what is ultimately feared is failure, the fear manifests itself in different ways.

A person with a fear of failure may push themselves very hard to succeed as a way of dealing with that fear - they may try to control their situation, use manipulation to secure their position, etc...

A person with a fear of success will avoid situations that put them in a position to fail - they will avoid possible success because of the fear of failure.

Two sides of the same coin.

[Tuben]

I have that problem if it has gone really good for a while then i get too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And i do bad calls maybe call all ins when i know i have the worst hand. And bluffing more.

But damn if it has gone bad then it is the opositte [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[davet]

I have a theory about this condition. And, yes it is very common. One, is that success creates several problems for an individual. They seem afraid of losing their circle of friends. Even though they all tend to be unsuccesful people.
It is just like the situation where a fat person goes on a diet, exercises, loses weight, and all of his/ her fat friends stop answering the phone when s/he calls.

I believe that succesful people are frightening to most people. They see their boss at work, and how s/he behaves, and doesn't want that for themselves.

Unsuccessful people are addicted to the struggle of going up, it is where all the fun is. Once there, they fear having nothing to wake up for, they always ask "what's next," even though they aren't there yet.

Also, failure is such a dynamic feeling. Every person wants compassion, it feels a lot closer to love than adulation.

If you grew up in a smaller town, where you were taught to be "normal," then there is an ingrained prejudice against success. You grew up seeing all the anger unsuccessful people had, and you don't want that anger directed at you.

Some people thwart success because they don't feel more deserving than the homeless, laborers, and welfare recipients.

Going back to the boss thing. Many bosses seem inhuman, treating employees like toilets. They feel that rich people have no value of human life. Unsuccessful people are too idealistic, and want all the world to lift with them.

So that's my own analyst. I had, and still do fight with these demons, but the more you simply move on, the easier it all gets. Eventually the truth of life breaks down into simpler pieces, and makes winning at poker, and life, a lot easier.

[wickedgoodtrader]

Sounds like you just need more discipline in poker. Fear of success is BS. I am a successful person and I have lost no friends. Half my friends work for me. I think as long as you remain modest and don't go rambling how much money you make, your friends won't be jealous. Even when they ramble about a good night waiting tables or something saying "I made $150 in 2 hours!", I just say good job and praise them. I don't reply "oh ya, I made 12k playing some PL Omaha in 8 hours!"

Fear of success in all the scenarios described so far in this post just sounds like an easy excuse for being a failure and not really that good.