2/4 party empire

[MicroBob]

SSH is EXTREMELY applicable to these games.


These are party 2/4 players....not world-class players.


The fact that they are a little bit tighter pre-flop than SSHE B&M standards does not make them Howard-Lederer-Post-Flop-Brilliant.


They make bad call-downs, fail to value-raise, get out when they should stay in and vice-versa, etc etc.

Just because they aren't trying to hit their runner-runner J6o two-pair and calling-down or raising with nothing does not mean they aren't beatable.
It just means they aren't completely retarded.


I believe Ed played in a couple of party 3/6 games and determined that his book VERY MUCH applies to those games.
I believe he was playing them partly to respond to the comments that were bandied about that party games are tighter than the games SSH was intended for.


I will admit then when I happened to read his post on that (I think in SS forum a few months ago) it also happened to come at a weekend when I found the party 3/6 games to be looser than they had been for awhile.

But I think he would still have similar findings of some really mediocre play even on the VP-20 tables that you were looking at today.


I truly believe there is a BIG difference between a party 2/4 VP20 table and a pokerstars 100/200 VP20 table.


Clarkmeister I think said that the concepts in SSHE apply all the way up to the Commerce 80/160 games he plays.


you need to adjust your thinking of course and consider how to interpret what SSHE is saying....
if the players are reasonable on your 2/4 VP-20 game then the SSHE stuff about players 'calling down with ANYTHING including T2o' is not as applicable.

But all of the ideas of pot-odds, raising for value, staying aggressive with your draws when you have the odds, how to play your over-cards (VERY IMPORTANT), etc etc all apply to the party 2/4 and 3/6 games.

With certain adjustments of course.


I was on a bunch of different 15/30 tables tonight with mostly VP table avg's of 25 or so and found many SSHE type situations.

Yes, you can also get value out of the concepts in HEFAP (as well as TOP even though it doesn't directly instruct on hold-em). but SSH is still the most important material you need to know and understand in order to beat the low-limit party games imo.


This is just my opinion and others may disagree with me.
This discussion has come up about a zillion times in the SS, B/S and General forums.
In fact, when SSH first came out I was leading the pack saying "wait a minute....I NEVER have 6-8 to the flop on average in the party 2/4 and 3/6 games that I play. The average is usually around 30-40%" (this is see-flop percentage, not VP).
But others have told me what I am saying now in this post and I have come to agree.



Anyway....if others agree or disagree with my ideas...especially since I haven't played the party 2/4 and 3/6 for a little while...then feel free.

[fatherofmany]

There are parts of SSH that apply to 20% vpip avg tables like those mentioned above, but most of the book assumes you're not playing at a table full of those players. Principles like pot odds, effective and implied odds, semi-bluffing, protecting your hand, etc are universal to most HE games.

Throughout the book, suggestions are made followed by reasoning that points out the looseness of your opponents. Much of the starting hand requirements and post flop advice are based on the fact that you're playing against people who "play too many hands and go to far with them". Even the book's cover advertises something about crushing "loose games".

At a tight table like those mentioned in this thread, a player acustomed to playing in loose games and getting paid off by poor players may do well, but isn't going to "crush" these games without major adjustments that SSH doesn't really cover.

Not a dig on SSH, I've read it at least 5 times and frequently recommend it to players in my home game, but against online tables w/ a combined flop % in the 20-30 range, concepts written about in books like TOP and HEFAP are going to prove equally, if not moreso, lucrative.