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  #21  
Old 08-30-2004, 08:01 AM
Guy McSucker Guy McSucker is offline
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Default Re: Trying to learn PLO

Having established that I haven't a clue about the preflop call, can we discuss the flop play?

Obviously you're not folding your set of kings. The question is do you shove in the remainder of your stack on the flop or call, trawling for the third player, and looking to bet your last $60 on the turn when his odds against you may be much less...

Any offers?

Guy.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2004, 11:36 AM
sherbert sherbert is offline
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Default Re: Trying to learn PLO

Well, I can live with the view that it's somewhere between me and Aces - sounds like a fair consensus. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]I also think Guy's point about short vs deep stacks is bang on. The last point I'd make is that while some of the Kings' equity is backdoor - hence better to be playing short stacked - a fair amount of the Aces' equity will fall into this category as well. But yes - unless you are very short stacked, the Kings do have to hit the flop in some shape or form if they are going to continue.
Another point I'd like some views on - setting aside whether or not the original poster should have raised in this instance - is, is it bad or good poker to fold to a raise having made a raise here? I suppose the hot term for this is meta game considerations, but I am always extremely reluctant to fold once I've made a raise - unless it's been reraised and reraised again or there seems to be a very strong likelihood of it becoming an all-in scramble.
In other words, I'm prepared to take a little bit the worst of it preflop even knowing that I'm 99 per cent up against aces, because, a) I hope to play the flop correctly - so I escape with minimum damage if I miss and I hope to get the aces' stack if I connect; and b) it gives the impression if I fold to the reraise that I can be run over.
Thoughts?
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2004, 11:50 AM
Guy McSucker Guy McSucker is offline
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Default Re: Trying to learn PLO

I don't think there's any shame in occasionallly raising and folding to a reraise on the same round in PL/NL.

If anything, it's probably a good thing to be seen doing this from time to time: it reinforces the idea that you raise a wide range of hands, which makes you tougher to read.

I think you are much more exploitable if you always stubbornly see a flop/another card/a showdown (i.e. get to the next phase of the hand) after you've raised, rather than if you occasionally pass.

Guy.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2004, 12:05 PM
sherbert sherbert is offline
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Default Re: Trying to learn PLO

That was quick! Good points. I suppose the situation only arises occasionally in any case. And I have folded occasionally preflop to a reraise, but that is when I've raised with a truly shaky hand. I'd agree with the exploitation point, although hopefully one should try to fall into the exploiter not exploited side of the deal - and that calling raises on the flop/turn is a far more serious error, which should be avoided except when you have a very clear edge.

Thanks.
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2004, 01:30 PM
CrisBrown CrisBrown is offline
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Default Re: Trying to learn PLO

Hi sherbert,

I'm going to agree with Guy on this one. I don't think there's any shame in laying down a marginal raising hand against a pot-sized reraise. To echo the old cliche, why throw good money after bad?

Nor do I really worry about being run off of the occasional marginal raising hand. I like opponents to think they can buy pots from me. When I do have a big hand, those same opponents will try to bluff me off of it....

Cris
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