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#41
08-05-2005, 07:44 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Calling the $30 (as opposed to raising) is ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] Please explain why. This bet is much scarier than a pot sized bet. [/ QUOTE ] I think it is possible some people are advocating calling the $30 bet because they know he got reraised. [/ QUOTE ] The fact that he got reraised actually makes it more palatable to raise, not less. If I have to get my stack in here, I'd rather do it on the flop. 
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#42
08-05-2005, 08:01 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
If you want to earn some serious money here you need Villain to have made flush because with only one pair hes going to fold to everything. (Betting 1/3pot as a semibluff with As is untypical).
The best way to play against made flush is to call because if you raise Villain will call and kill you on the turn. (This line also gains vs one pair because Villain may think that you are drawing and bet the turn again) Best wishes
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#43
08-05-2005, 08:04 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
First off, I pretty much ignore KK here. If he has that, oh well. If the board pairs, he stacks me.
The only two hands that I think I can stack against here and be ahead are AsAx AsKx. All other hands I either can't get much more out of or they have me beat. I'm unlikely to lay my hand down before the river, so if he bets pot, I know I'm likely to face a big bet on the turn and I might as well just get my money in on the flop. But when he bets $30, I realize that I can call and see the turn, and will probably have an easy bet to call on the turn as well. If he has something like red AK, I'll probably see a couple more small bets. There's a good chance I'll value raise the river if he bets the turn and river smallish. If the turn or river is a spade, we've kept the pot small so I can call and beat red AK. If I pop it to $150 or so here and he calls, we have a $400 pot. What if the turn is a spade now? And he leads? And he checks? If the turn is a blank and he leads pot, what then? Or if he checks and checkraises you?
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#44
08-05-2005, 08:07 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to earn some serious money here you need Villain to have made flush because with only one pair hes going to fold to everything. (Betting 1/3pot as a semibluff with As is untypical). The best way to play against made flush is to call because if you raise Villain will call and kill you on the turn. (This line also gains vs one pair because Villain may think that you are drawing and bet the turn again) Best wishes [/ QUOTE ] I think betting $30 into a $95 pot in this situation is atypical no matter what he has. How often do you see someone do that?
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#45
08-05-2005, 08:12 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
First off, I pretty much ignore KK here. If he has that, oh well. If the board pairs, he stacks me. The only two hands that I think I can stack against here and be ahead are AsAx AsKx. All other hands I either can't get much more out of or they have me beat. I'm unlikely to lay my hand down before the river, so if he bets pot, I know I'm likely to face a big bet on the turn and I might as well just get my money in on the flop. But when he bets $30, I realize that I can call and see the turn, and will probably have an easy bet to call on the turn as well. If he has something like red AK, I'll probably see a couple more small bets. There's a good chance I'll value raise the river if he bets the turn and river smallish. If the turn or river is a spade, we've kept the pot small so I can call and beat red AK. If I pop it to $150 or so here and he calls, we have a $400 pot. What if the turn is a spade now? And he leads? And he checks? If the turn is a blank and he leads pot, what then? Or if he checks and checkraises you? [/ QUOTE ] So youre calling the $30? What if you call and the turn is a spade? Then your only calling if he gives you odds (implied or otherwise) to chase your boat? It just doesnt seem right to me to let him catch another spade for only $30.
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#46
08-05-2005, 08:20 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
I think betting $30 into a $95 pot in this situation is atypical no matter what he has. How often do you see someone do that? [/ QUOTE ] That's right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think that turn card will more often help me than Villain so I like calling this bet. But I am not so sure.
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#47
08-05-2005, 08:38 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think betting $30 into a $95 pot in this situation is atypical no matter what he has. How often do you see someone do that? [/ QUOTE ] That's right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think that turn card will more often help me than Villain so I like calling this bet. But I am not so sure. [/ QUOTE ] How is that? There are only 7 cards that improve my hand. If he a spade, there are 9 that improve his to a flush and others that improve it to a hand that may overtake me depending on what he has. He has to either have a high spade (AA, AK, AQ, QQ with a spade) or have KK. Id be shocked if he had red AK or red AA, but even if he did, Im going to hate a spade falling.
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#48
08-05-2005, 11:29 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
$/5/$10 NL Solid tight player raise in EP to $40. Im the only caller on the button with JJ. We both have $1000. Pot is $95 and the flop comes KJ4 all spades. He bets $30, I raise to $130, he reraises to $500. Standard push? [/ QUOTE ] Yes... standard push. Harrington states you're supposed to pay off set-over-set. If you don't you are playing too weak-tight.
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#49
08-06-2005, 02:08 AM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think betting $30 into a $95 pot in this situation is atypical no matter what he has. How often do you see someone do that? [/ QUOTE ] That's right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think that turn card will more often help me than Villain so I like calling this bet. But I am not so sure. [/ QUOTE ] How is that? There are only 7 cards that improve my hand. If he a spade, there are 9 that improve his to a flush and others that improve it to a hand that may overtake me depending on what he has. He has to either have a high spade (AA, AK, AQ, QQ with a spade) or have KK. Id be shocked if he had red AK or red AA, but even if he did, Im going to hate a spade falling. [/ QUOTE ] The reason I dont like raising this is because of the bet size of 30, i dont see it as a semi-bluff because of how small it is, no1 is gonna fold for 30. I was not even concerned about KK raising me, like Diablo says, if board pairs he is taking my stack if he has KK. IF he does have the flush, then just calling the 30, is a good option because IF the board pairs, he doesnt give you credit for a set, and you have implied odds to hit your hand and take a large chunk of money from a made flush. Post-Oak, you said i would be raising with 94d here. OF COURSE I WOULD!! Its just for fold equity and the bitch that i would do that, god in heaven know i have no intention of playing that on this board.But with a set of Jacks, its a different story.
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#50
08-06-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Set of J\'s
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that he got reraised actually makes it more palatable to raise, not less. If I have to get my stack in here, I'd rather do it on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] The point you are missing is that the reraise is clueing people in that villain had a monster, and this is causing results oriented thinking.
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